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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
happy chick
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 Mon, Nov 18 2024, 11:46 pm
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Saying I'm sorry means you feel for the other person. It doesn't mean you're apologizing. Or does it?
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amother
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Mon, Nov 18 2024, 11:49 pm
Growing up this was drilled into my head
"Saying sorry means I won't do it again"
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amother
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Mon, Nov 18 2024, 11:50 pm
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But saying I'm sorry that happened to you is an expression of empathy not guilt.
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HonesttoGod
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Mon, Nov 18 2024, 11:52 pm
Depends on the context.
When someone is telling you a sad story or situation and you say I’m sorry, it means I feel bad for you. I’m feeling for what you’re going through.
When someone tells you something that you have done to wrong them or hurt them , saying I’m sorry means I apologize for what I’ve done and won’t do it again.
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amother
Lemonchiffon
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 12:00 am
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If you are being wrongly accused like that thread, saying I’m sorry is accepting guilt.
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allthingsblue
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 12:11 am
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DrMom
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 12:20 am
"I'm sorry I treated you badly" = admitting guilt and accepting responsibility.
"I'm sorry you feel I treated you badly" = empathy but no admission of guilt or responsibility.
(To distance oneself further from responsibility: "I'm sorry you feel you were treated badly.")
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happytobemom
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 12:21 am
| amother Lawngreen wrote: | Growing up this was drilled into my head
"Saying sorry means I won't do it again" |
Because you were being taught about apologizing for something you did wrong.
But in the English language, I'm sorry can mean two different things, depending on the context.
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amother
Geranium
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 12:36 am
| DrMom wrote: | "I'm sorry I treated you badly" = admitting guilt and accepting responsibility.
"I'm sorry you feel I treated you badly" = empathy but no admission of guilt or responsibility.
(To distance oneself further from responsibility: "I'm sorry you feel you were treated badly.") |
As the poster who sparked this debate, I appreciate this post. My meaning in that that thread was to convey the intent expressed in either two or three of Dr Mom's examples, ie , I am sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy your meal/ had a disappointing experience ( but I take no responsibility for it) I thought that the intent was/is very clear. Obviously many here did not.
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Ruchel
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 3:07 am
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I say I'm sorry to sad stuff. It's cultural.
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imaima
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 3:25 am
| happy chick wrote: | | Saying I'm sorry means you feel for the other person. It doesn't mean you're apologizing. Or does it? |
Depending on the context it can mean both
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amother
Ballota
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 3:34 am
It's an expression of sadness or distress:
When used to apologize (to express regret) - you feel bad that you did something wrong.
When used to express sympathy - you feel bad that someone else feels bad.
When used to disagree or say no (I'm sorry, but you can't/I don't agree etc.) - you feel bad that you need to say something that will cause someone else to have a negative feeling. So another kind of apology, but not for directly doing something actually wrong.
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 6:21 am
| DrMom wrote: | "I'm sorry I treated you badly" = admitting guilt and accepting responsibility.
"I'm sorry you feel I treated you badly" = empathy but no admission of guilt or responsibility.
(To distance oneself further from responsibility: "I'm sorry you feel you were treated badly.") |
To each their own by I find it super annoying!
Listen to this:
Wife: Dh you come home and spend lots of time reading etc etc by the time you come upstairs I’m seeping it’s very lonely every night!
Dh: I’m sorry you feel that way. (Then continues same behaviour).
It’s bad for shalom bayis to become all diplomatic on your spouse without actually caring to accept the fault / discuss/ change.
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singleagain
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 6:43 am
I agree that it depends on the context. I actually just saw something about how instead of emailing "sorry for the delay" or something you should say "thank you for your patience" and you can see how the meaning changes
Like most of language, it doesn't come down to the bare definitions of words but the context and tone of the message you are trying to convey
Btw, in the case of sorry, be very careful with the phrase "I'm sorry if you feel" it can be considered passive aggressive at best and close to gaslighting at worst. If you do think the situation was caused by some sort of misunderstand, maybe find a different way to convey that
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happy chick
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 6:48 am
| amother Geranium wrote: | | As the poster who sparked this debate, I appreciate this post. My meaning in that that thread was to convey the intent expressed in either two or three of Dr Mom's examples, ie , I am sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy your meal/ had a disappointing experience ( but I take no responsibility for it) I thought that the intent was/is very clear. Obviously many here did not. |
I understood your response as a feeling of sympathy, not admission of guilt. I agree it depends a lot on context but your situation is in a grey area.
But now I'm wondering if every time I told someone Im sorry, they think I slighted them.
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ora_43
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 7:04 am
| amother Geranium wrote: | | As the poster who sparked this debate, I appreciate this post. My meaning in that that thread was to convey the intent expressed in either two or three of Dr Mom's examples, ie , I am sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy your meal/ had a disappointing experience ( but I take no responsibility for it) I thought that the intent was/is very clear. Obviously many here did not. |
I thought it was clear. "I'm sorry to hear...." just means like, 'oh wow, too bad that happened.' Not that you personally accept responsibility.
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ora_43
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 7:07 am
| amother Firethorn wrote: | To each their own by I find it super annoying!
Listen to this:
Wife: Dh you come home and spend lots of time reading etc etc by the time you come upstairs I’m seeping it’s very lonely every night!
Dh: I’m sorry you feel that way. (Then continues same behaviour).
It’s bad for shalom bayis to become all diplomatic on your spouse without actually caring to accept the fault / discuss/ change. |
Sure, because that's an example of a situation where the wife is looking for a real apology, and the dh isn't offering one.
It doesn't mean it's wrong in general to use the non-apology "sorry." It's still fine in any situation where the other person isn't hoping for a genuine apology.
(or in any situation where they are hoping for a genuine apology, and you're fine with disappointing them. eg in the situation that sparked this debate I think a passive-aggressive 'sorry' would be more than deserved.)
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gottago
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 7:22 am
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One of my favorite quotes is "Apologizing doesn't mean you were wrong, it means you value your relationship more than being right"
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amother
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Tue, Nov 19 2024, 7:27 am
| gottago wrote: | | One of my favorite quotes is "Apologizing doesn't mean you were wrong, it means you value your relationship more than being right" |
Yes but in that case you need to change the thing you’re saying sorry about. Otherwise it hurts the relationship.
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