What’s the point of seminary?

amother

Indigo

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 10:26 am

I haven’t read the full thread so might be repeating something someone said but as a person who had a hard childhood and teenagehood because of my dysfunctional family, seminary was absolute misery. My friends with similarly painful upbringings had the same experience.

I know that people think sem is necessary for people like us but it’s actually just hugely triggering for most. Being in a new country with people around all the time, having to find places to stay all the time, meeting so many new people, so many overwhelming experiences. We didn’t have the emotional tools to deal with it all. It took us a year or two post sem to recover mentally and we look back at it as a traumatic waste of time and money.

amother

Crimson ↓

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 11:04 am

amother Tomato wrote:

Totally agree. There’s no reason to spend so much money (don’t forget the hidden costs of a year in Eretz Yisroel) when there are more than enough perfectly fine options locally. There are now a bunch of seminaries in Lakewood, my niece goes to a new one that opened this year, it’s action packed with fantastic teachers and program. She doesn’t feel like she’s missing anything.

I think people are finally getting tired of sending to EY.

I send also.
They are not cheap
$14000
$4000 to dorm. (And not dorming in some places gets really complicated with the homework and partners and schedule)
Plus the optional Israel trip
And they're coming home every Shabbos and Yom Tov so we're still feeding them.

I chose an American seminary for a few reasons.

Financial Aid exists but it also has its own problems.

1) my daughter has a dream of teaching. It makes sense to learn and do model lessons and observations in America.

2) she wanted to stay closer to home

3) the schnorring meals culture is uncomfortable and stressful to me.

4) I feel like seminary can be a very vulnerable time with very enthusiastic teachers pushing things in an unhealthy way. I appreciate being able to keep an eye closer to help her transition into adulthood

amother

Amaranthus ↓

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 11:10 am

4) I feel like seminary can be a very vulnerable time with very enthusiastic teachers pushing things in an unhealthy way. I appreciate being able to keep an eye closer to help her transition into adulthood

I was also worried about this, but my daughter who just came back this past summer said it really wasn't like that. (It definitely was in my seminary days in the 90s so I totally get where you're coming from.) I agree its a vulnerable time with teens, but the kollel push above else has abated somewhat. My daughter says the focus is more on Torah in all life choices. She went to a mainstream BY Israeli seminary.

amother

↑ Crimson ↓

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 11:17 am

amother Amaranthus wrote:

I wasn't concerned about kollel per se. It was a general thing. Technology. Tznius. Hashkafa. Anti-America.

Most Israeli seminary teachers are amazing. But there are some who are both extreme and less intune to American teenagers and the struggles. Not to mention grooming, unhealthy relationships, manipulative friendships, etc.

It exists plenty nowadays.

As a parent, I felt the healthiest is to let my daughter have her independence close by. Dorm during the week, choose to go to friends for Shabbos but coming home is always an option.

amother

↑ Amaranthus ↓

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 11:18 am

Sending my daughter to Israel was a thought out decision. It didn't come easy but it wasn't impossible. And I'm glad we sent her. She loved it.

At the end of the day, I view it as an incredible gift of love. She gained in her love of our land, people, made new friends, and saw many different ways of a Torah life. If you don't have it, you will still have all of those things! But, if you can, its a beautiful experience. Ultimately, I felt like we ask so much of our girls right after high school, they get on track for a career juggling work and school, chesed, shiurim, and dating and hopefully marriage and children. If I can give them this beautiful year with friends and using their talents and learning interesting things, then how beautiful.

If I couldn't afford it, I wouldn't have sent. But we were able to manage and it was important to us and to her to do so. My next daughter in high school doesn't want to go. All types are fine!

My daughter went with a budget. And she was careful with money. There were soem girls in seminary who never ate in the dorm and had standing orders at the bagel shops every day. But she didn't do that and wasn't friends with girls who did that. They were very conspicuous but they were NOT the majority.

amother

Seablue

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 11:20 am

Huge waste of money.

Mother of 2 daughters who loved and had great seminary years.

Did they grow? They were BH great girls and students before they went. But I am now seriously in debt from sending them back to back years.

We also haven’t discussed the heartache and pressure of the 12th grade year to get into the seminary they want. The arrogance of the administrators charging $100 just for the zchus to look at your application.

I would abolish it if I had the power..

amother

↑ Amaranthus

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 11:22 am

amother Crimson wrote:

You sound like such a thought out, caring mother! I totally hear you.

There was a seminary handbook that went around when the girls were in 12 th grade that discussed a lot of this. So my daughter read it and we talked about it. The eim bayit was also available when my daughter had some friendship situations that she wasn't sure how to handle. My experience was that with awareness, knowledge and seminary support, my daughter had a safe growth experience. So you are right that there are those kinds of challenges, and I definitely hear that you wanted those things to happen where you could be close and help guide your child.

little neshamala

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 11:59 am

amother Crimson wrote:

THIIIIIIIS.
THIS THIS THIS a million times this.

amother

Coffee

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 12:04 pm

For me, the point of seminary was to be in Eretz Yisroel!
The classes in my seminary were very much like 13th grade of highschool, which disappointed me greatly. But I gained so much simply from being in Eretz Yisroel; specifically from being exposed to so many different cultures in klall yisroel by being hosted for Shabbos with very different families, and from all the tiyulim I gained an emotional connection to our history in the Land. Being in EY for 10 straight months (didn't go home for Pesach, to me that defeats the purpose), I was able to experience all the Yomim Tovim in its special EY flavor. It deepened my love of EY and ahavas yisroel to be there.
I also made a great group of friends that I still keep up with 2 decades later.
That being said, is it worth $50,000? I don't know.
My dh is adamant our daughter won't be going because he's somewhat of a non-conformist and also he believes it's a scam to keep the American kollel wives employed. But we have a long time before we need to worry about it.
I do think it's wrong how highschool teachers will pressure every girl to go to seminary and threaten them that they won't get a good shidduch if they don't. That's pure apikorsus to say that, and I know girls who didn't go and got married quickly to great guys. I wish seminary was just for about 50% of the girls and only the ones that really wanted it (and could afford it) would go. Once it becomes a "thing" that every MUST DO, I think a lot of its value begins to diminish.

amother

Amaryllis

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 12:15 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I just personally don't know any that I can think of. Or wait maybe one who went to a place in Israel as a baalat teshuva. I'm unsure of she is under or over 60. But the concept of going to sem as a thing after high school? Definitely much more recent for me.

Your french right? (That is the impression I have gotten from many of your post, my apologies if you aren't)
What about Tomer Deborah in France? It was one of the biggest seminaries 50 yrs ago.
My mother is 68, she went there 50 yrs ago.
My sil mother whom I think is approx the same age went to Bjj.
Even my grandmother was in Gateshead seminary and that is many many years ago...

↑ Ruchel ↓

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 12:20 pm

amother Amaryllis wrote:

Of course it exists. I just say what I experience. 10000 sems can exist it will not change it.

Brit in Israel

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 12:22 pm

I haven't read all the pages yet so maybe someone has written it.
I think the way seminary is done in UK/Europe is amazing.
We had shuirim in the morning & evening and afternoons we were enrolled in the local college.
Majority of girls are from a different town so dorming in was mandatory but close enough to the families so they could visit.
Vacation was like the yeshivas plus 2 weeks in the winter so it was Succos, end of dec-Jan, Pesach & Summer. It was 2 yrs and I found it an amazing experience, I learnt alot in all areas.

amother

Milk

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 1:14 pm

I sent my dd to seminary in Israel I paid closer to $15000 than $50k!!
A lot of money but let's not exaggerate!
We paid for seminary, flight and TTI so she could be eligible for FAFSA. She finished her B.A when she came home. She paid trips and food with her own money.
She gained tremendously hashkafa wise and in knowledge. She gained amazing friends.
She grew a lot while there.

amother

↑ Crimson

Tue, Nov 12 2024, 1:24 pm

Ruchel wrote:

There are definitely sems under 14 000!

For American girls?
That include a dorm and food for a year?
Because if I send to a cheaper seminary but then have to pay separately for food and dorm, it will still come out the same.