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amother
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 Mon, Nov 04 2024, 7:51 am
| amother Plum wrote: | Miriam went with the women, away from the men.
Devora had gedarim.
At the same time, Sara was put in a box and Yosef hid Leah.
Women aren’t the cause of s-xual urges. That is a very Christian concept. Maybe women just don’t have the need to be flaunted in public? We’re inherently more tznius. I know I don’t want my picture splashed on a billboard. I don’t need to see pictures of women in order to feel vindicated or justified. I feel bad for women wearing burkas. I send my girls to a charedi BY and they send out pictures and projects with their pictures and they even have yearbooks which are pictures!
Even in nature, the female is meant to blend in and the male is meant to be more showy and out there. Like lions and birds and I can go on.
Knegdo actually means opposite. That isn’t equal. No one is equal. Everybody has an important part and each person has their own tafkid and no two people are the same or equal. Even biologically men and women are different. That doesn’t mean one is better and one is worse. You need both to survive and thrive and learn and grow. I can go on but I have things to do. More later if I have time. |
But Sara wasn't kept in a box all the time.
K'negdo can mean opposite. But it doesn't only mean opposite, otherwise how do you interpret the mishna, "v'talmud Torah k'neged kulam". Are you saying Torah study is the opposite of kibbud av v'em and gemillut chassidim? Is that what you are thinking each morning while saying this during davening?
And I think saying "I don't want a billboard" is the same as not including a picture of the Queen of England or an author's headshot, is a straw man argument. It is not all or nothing and no one is asking it to be.
It is the complete eradication because we are worried about men's inability to control their own urges that is the distortion. (If an individual woman doesn't want her picture there, great. But making that decision for her if infantilizing to both men and women).
I won't convince you, and in the same way as I think the chareidi view is distorted, I am sure you think the MO one is.
But I think we can all agree it is certainly not halacha to eliminate women.
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PinkFridge
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 7:55 am
| amother Plum wrote: | Miriam went with the women, away from the men.
Devora had gedarim.
At the same time, Sara was put in a box and Yosef hid Leah.
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Was that gedarim or for their own protection in these specific situations?
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 7:59 am
| amother Daisy wrote: | But Sara wasn't kept in a box all the time.
It is the complete eradication because we are worried about men's inability to control their own urges that is the distortion. (If an individual woman doesn't want her picture there, great. But making that decision for her if infantilizing to both men and women).
I won't convince you, and in the same way as I think the chareidi view is distorted, I am sure you think the MO one is.
But I think we can all agree it is certainly not halacha to eliminate women. |
Agree totally. We’re chareidi but a house of mainly girls and eliminating tzniusdige women is something we just won’t do. If that makes me a scary feminist who thinks women are better than men now blah blah blah, then so be it. Ppl can call it whatever they want. Either way, we don’t eliminate women in our household.
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:09 am
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I live in Baltimore and have had a subscription for like 12 years. I wouldn’t buy it if it had pics of women as my husband is very careful and I have a house full of boys.
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amother
PlumPink
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:10 am
| amother Daisy wrote: | Nope.
Don't allow magazines that eliminate women in our home.
Against our hashkafa (because we follow the Torah). |
Respectfully, I wonder what the response would be if a yeshivish woman would say, "we don't use this or that MO shittah as it against our hashkafa (because we follow the Torah)." The clause in parenthesis was unnecessarily divisive.
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amother
Chicory
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:12 am
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The part I've never been able to understand: if women are more spiritual, and more Torahdik, then why shouldn't they davka be the rabbis and poskim?
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:12 am
| amother Brunette wrote: | | If Harris wins, mishpacha will have to print picture of her. |
They’d do a pic in cartoon or colored pencil style, like they did with other women in the past they needed to do
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:13 am
| amother PlumPink wrote: | | Respectfully, I wonder what the response would be if a yeshivish woman would say, "we don't use this or that MO shittah as it against our hashkafa (because we follow the Torah)." The clause in parenthesis was unnecessarily divisive. |
See it all the time on this site.
I recognize their viewpoint and am secure enough in mine.
But I see that it could be hurtful and I'm sorry if I hurt anyone here and ask mechila.
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:18 am
| amother Mistyrose wrote: | | I live in Baltimore and have had a subscription for like 12 years. I wouldn’t buy it if it had pics of women as my husband is very careful and I have a house full of boys. |
What do you think will happen if your boys saw a headshot of an author or a picture of the Queen of England?
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:19 am
| amother Tan wrote: | Im not that poster, but also MO and never even heard of mishpacha before this site.
We read Jewish Action and there re many pictures of both men and women. |
The Jewish Action is monthly, not weekly, so it's not the same.
But for those of you who are worried about the slippery slope- the Jewish Action does a really good job, IMO, in publishing the right kind of pictures. That may be because it's published by a non profit... it's sad to think that if the other magazines were to start publishing photos of women they would not do as good a job.
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:20 am
| amother Chicory wrote: | | The part I've never been able to understand: if women are more spiritual, and more Torahdik, then why shouldn't they davka be the rabbis and poskim? |
Because they're not. The most any responses have gone is that women and men are equal in holiness.
Men have more mitzvos so it seems to me more potential for holiness.
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readreread
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:21 am
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No. We don't subscribe to any magazines, though.
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:21 am
| amother Mistyrose wrote: | | I live in Baltimore and have had a subscription for like 12 years. I wouldn’t buy it if it had pics of women as my husband is very careful and I have a house full of boys. |
Only because you mention Baltimore--I'm from there, too. Most people I know in Baltimore are ok with women's photos being published. I don't think I've come across more than a very small minority against it-- this is across the frum spectrum, including yeshivish readers.
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amother
Snowflake
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:23 am
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I am MO and I read them. I don't like that they don't have pictures of women and I also don't like ads that omit women.
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amother
Chestnut
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:24 am
I lean more yeshivish but OOT type.
I am not happy that Mishpacha don't put pictures of women and don't buy it for various reasons, I would still buy it if this was the only reason I had against it.
I do think it is the highest quality chareidi paper.
Ami is too sensationalist and allow too many conspiracy theories in their paper.
I don't buy any Jewish magazines because it's a waste of money for me I like reading books and I get my news from reading non Jewish news sites.
One of my workmates buys a few magazines like the New statesman and New Yorker and passes them onto me lol.
I do enjoy reading Mishpacha when I see at other people's homes.
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Teamster
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:30 am
| amother Chicory wrote: | | The part I've never been able to understand: if women are more spiritual, and more Torahdik, then why shouldn't they davka be the rabbis and poskim? |
Because more spiritual might davka mean more internal.
I'm not sure how women are more Torahdik than men - that's something men and women can achieve equally, I think. But yeah, as a whole women are more spiritual than men.
It all comes down to different roles - women have the more internal role and men have the more external role. (This is true biologically as well as halachically.)
That being said, I agree that photos of tzanua women should not be controversial, and there's no basis in halacha for hiding our faces. It's definitely a sensitivity that the frum magazines have chosen to adhere to.
I personally don't buy any of the frum magazines, only because I refuse to pay so much money for being advertised to half the time.
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:37 am
| amother Brunette wrote: | | Yes, the Yated has several articles written by a woman who uses different male pseudonyms. |
And there are also women who use women pseudonyms. And men who use pseudonyms. And on imamother we’re all using pseudonyms.
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:41 am
| amother Aqua wrote: | The Jewish Action is monthly, not weekly, so it's not the same.
But for those of you who are worried about the slippery slope- the Jewish Action does a really good job, IMO, in publishing the right kind of pictures. That may be because it's published by a non profit... it's sad to think that if the other magazines were to start publishing photos of women they would not do as good a job. |
I get the Jewish action and quite honestly I don’t remember if they have pictures of women, aside from YU ads. It doesn’t bother me, I’m not reading the magazines for the pictures and sometimes the YU pictures are my relatives so it’s nice to see them. (Male and female.)
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:43 am
| PinkFridge wrote: | | Was that gedarim or for their own protection in these specific situations? |
Both
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amother
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Mon, Nov 04 2024, 8:45 am
| June wrote: | Because more spiritual might davka mean more internal.
I'm not sure how women are more Torahdik than men - that's something men and women can achieve equally, I think. But yeah, as a whole women are more spiritual than men.
It all comes down to different roles - women have the more internal role and men have the more external role. (This is true biologically as well as halachically.)
That being said, I agree that photos of tzanua women should not be controversial, and there's no basis in halacha for hiding our faces. It's definitely a sensitivity that the frum magazines have chosen to adhere to.
I personally don't buy any of the frum magazines, only because I refuse to pay so much money for being advertised to half the time. |
Can you explain the bolded? What is the sensitivity?
(I really appreciate your posts here and on the zahal thread).
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