Would you have joined them?

amother

Salmon

Thu, Oct 31 2024, 6:52 pm

I have joined an all frum male lunch in the conference room.
We did it once a month.
We spoke shop or just about our families.
Never thought about it.

amother

Blushpink

Thu, Oct 31 2024, 10:08 pm

I think the fact that it's a conference room makes a big difference. I'd join and even talk a bit.

If it was a meal in a restaurant it's a different story. There's something about being out of office, in a date setting, that makes it more weird.

amother

↑ Lightcyan ↓

Thu, Oct 31 2024, 10:28 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

I would have joined. But things are generally professional at my frum firm and I would have kind of stayed a bit to the side but been a team member.

I'm thinking back now to some teams that have had 1 female at times and generally they were asked to invite another female from another team to join.

What if the genders were reversed, a group of women, one man - your husband. They are in an enclosed room, not public.
I think a Sha'aylas Rav is a good idea here. The nature of meals is that it is informal and work is not typically discussed. Usually there are jokes and light discussion. You never know in which direction it will go. Sure you can sit to the side and participate in a polite manner. But are you comfortable?

If the meals sponsored by the company I would approach the boss and ask for a venue that would make all the team members comfortable.

amother

Blonde

Thu, Oct 31 2024, 10:30 pm

My husband works in such a situation. He says they invite the women because it feels wrong not to, but the women always say no and the men understand that it’s awkward for them being that it’s majority men.

imaima

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 12:35 am

amother OP wrote:

I work in a mostly male office (all frum jews) and they invited me to join them in the conference room for lunch today. They ordered lunch and were convincing me to join. I declined and stayed in my room instead. They usually order in lunch around once a month. They seemed upset I didn't join them.
Would you have joined or not? If not, why not and how would you decline?

I think all frum Jews should have understood why you left. Non-Jews wouldn’t have and I might put in an effort to hang out for a bit and leave.

amother

Lotus

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 12:41 am

This might sound weird but they have a point.

These work lunches are meant to serve a purpose. Whether it's to talk about work or just for team building. If you can't fully participate in your office it might be best to not work in an office with this gender ratio.

amother

↑ Denim

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 1:11 am

amother Indigo wrote:

I'm surprised that a bunch of frum males tried insisting that a female sit down to lunch with them. Unless you're not the only woman there.

We are all professionals and chitchat centers around our industry, generally.

DrMom

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 3:11 am

amother Blushpink wrote:

I wouldn't have an issue with either location.

And restaurants aren't only for dating. It is entirely normal to have a business lunch in a restaurant.

amother

↑ Lightcyan ↓

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 3:18 am

DrMom wrote:

I wouldn't have an issue with either location.

And restaurants aren't only for dating. It is entirely normal to have a business lunch in a restaurant.

Actually, I would feel more comfortable in a restaurant. In a public place where you never know who is going to be seated at a table near you, you behave more appropriately and are more self-conscious. Ordering in and eating in a conference room, with a limited number of coworkers is different.

amother

Black

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 4:00 am

If it was 50/50 men and women I would join and talk to the women. If it was 8 men and two women I would not. Tznius, of course is a consideration, but I’m also fearful because In general 1. I’m very attractive, 2. Have a s-xual abuse history 3. Have a sister who is, let’s just say, playing around because she can.

amother

↑ Lightcyan

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 5:14 am

amother Black wrote:

So you find in a frum, professional setting, the men hit on you? Or give you more attention simply because you are attractive?

freilich

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 5:21 am

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

OP, I think you did the right thing

I agree with this OP.

The men are nice for inviting you, but they should not insist.

amother

Raspberry

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 7:16 am

I would have tested the waters. If I could sit with the other woman to one side and talk between us for a little while, ok. Or if the talk in the conference room was all shop, also ok.

If it got inappropriate and personal, I would have gently excused myself and left to finish my food at my desk.

But why not have the lunch?

amother

↑ Gardenia

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 7:19 am

amother Blonde wrote:

Would you be comfortable if one of the women did accept and sat with them for a social chit chat over lunch.

amother

Stone ↓

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 11:57 am

amother Lightcyan wrote:

So you find in a frum, professional setting, the men hit on you? Or give you more attention simply because you are attractive?

What if it's neither? I'm not the poster who wrote that, but what if she's just cognizant of the fact that she's very attractive and thinks she should be careful. I think it's admirable.

I don't know how I feel about this, I lean towards too extreme, but a friend of mine who was older and single at the time, and was working full day in a boys yeshiva elementary was told by the principal: the rebbeim here leave home while their wives are drooling on their pillows and they don't get home again till the wives are knee deep in bedtime and baths. Do them a favor and don't come to school all dressed and made up.
It's extreme, but it's a perspective.

amother

↑ Stone

Fri, Nov 01 2024, 11:59 am

amother Blonde wrote:

Why don't the women have their own lunch conference? Presumably lunch is sponsored by the office, why should the women miss out.