who are you tricking ?!

↑ octopus ↓

Sat, Oct 04 2008, 8:57 pm

Thank you for posting the article!

I keep chalav yisrael and my dh doesn't. But I eat the regular butter with the hechsher because of the reasons stated in the article. (btw- According to what I do, though, the butter has to have no other ingredients besides salt and cream. Otherwise I would need the chalav yisrael one).

Atali ↓

Sat, Oct 04 2008, 9:07 pm

octopus wrote:

I think you are getting your terms confused:

Cholov AKUM is the milk that is assur everywhere. "Akum" is the term used by SA, not "Stam".

Cholov "Stam" is simply another word used for "Cholov hacompanies" they mean exactly the same thing.

Milk in Rural Africa is not Cholov Stam, but rather Cholov Akum.

↑ octopus ↓

Sat, Oct 04 2008, 9:09 pm

Atali wrote:

octopus wrote:

this is what I learned from my 12th grade halacha teacher.

curlytop

Sat, Oct 04 2008, 9:15 pm

octopus wrote:

Dont u think u will be sending your kids strange msgs by one of you keeping it and one of you not??
Never heard of this one before Very Happy

↑ Atali ↓

Sat, Oct 04 2008, 9:17 pm

Well, I had a twelfth grade teacher who said that there is no difference between drinking CY and Cholov Stam, since R' Moshe feinstein's heter brought milk supervised by companies into the same category as cholov yisrael.

Which made me Rolling Eyes

and think, "This is who my school hires to teach hashkafa class?"

The term used in SA is "akum", since we are not supposed to drink milk from "akum", non-Jews, since they may mix something. The term "stam", OTOH, means plain, not Cholov Yisrael and not Cholov Akum.

↑ octopus ↓

Sat, Oct 04 2008, 9:24 pm

ummmm... I trust my halacha teacher. He said that the term "chalav ha'companies" is the exact term used in Rav Moshe Feinstein's teshuva.

↑ octopus ↓

Sat, Oct 04 2008, 9:26 pm

curlytop wrote:

Dont u think u will be sending your kids strange msgs by one of you keeping it and one of you not??
Never heard of this one before Very Happy

No, I do not think I will be sending my kids mixed messages. I have my reasons for keeping it. I will not demand my chumra of others in my household, unless they choose it themselves. My children can decide what they want to do.

This is not like one spouse keeping shabbos and the other does not.

↑ Atali

Sat, Oct 04 2008, 9:31 pm

octopus wrote:

ummmm... I trust my halacha teacher. He said that the term "chalav ha'companies" is the exact term used in Rav Moshe Feinstein's teshuva.

That is the term used in the teshuva and is correct, I never said otherwise. I just said that the term cholov stam means exactly the same thing and that cholov akum is the objectionable term. And that therefore it is wrong to say that those who use the term cholov stam are incorrect.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I thought that you were saying that the teacher criticized those who use the term cholov stam.

↑ Crayon210

Sat, Oct 04 2008, 11:30 pm

IIRC, Atali is right, R' Moshe never used the term stam, but the way we use it is the way that R' Moshe used the term Cholov ha'companies.

↑ octopus ↓

Sat, Oct 04 2008, 11:37 pm

ok. eilu v'eilu.

shalhevet

Sun, Oct 05 2008, 4:48 am

OK, here is the answer to the original question based on a shiur I heard (I wish I could remember the whole shiur) and from dh.

The recommended way to do teshuva is by taking on something small for a limited period of time. It was told about one of the gedolim from the last generation that he took upon himself before YK to always bentch from a siddur/ bentcher until Chanuka. The reason is because that way a person will keep to their decision, and can then reach a higher level from which he can continue to grow.

And here is another question. Why do we have aseres (10) yemei teshuva? On RH we are not allowed to say vidui (confession) which is an essential part of teshuva. So why aren't they called 8 yemei teshuva?

It says in the gemorra that every day our yetzer horo rises up against us, and we wouldn't be able to conquer it without Hashem's help. So how do we ever do mitzvos? Because Hashem helps us go in the derech (way) we want to. So really the only thing we do is to want to do mitzvos. After that it's up to Hashem.

The pasuk says:
יעזוב רשע דרכו וישוב אל ד'
The wicked person should leave his derech and return to Hashem.

That is what Rabbenu Yonah (or maybe the Rambam, I don't remember) writes is one of the ways of teshuva. First to leave the old derech, and only then to return. That is basically why today we call someone a BT if they start to keep mitzvos, even if they haven't done teshuva yet for their previous aveiros.

That also answers why RH is part of the 10 days. First we have to leave our old way and begin a new derech. Which we can do on RH, before the vidui. And by taking something on, even something small, and even for a limited amount of time, we are showing Hashem that we are interested in a new derech (even though He knows this is what we intend.) Then Hashem will help us on the derech. And we can take on the same thing or something else, again for a limited amount of time.

There are 2 judgements on RH, that are sealed on YK. One is for olam hazeh (this world - life, health, parnassa etc). Every time we ask for chayim tovim in the davenning, it means this judgement.

The other is for olam habah (the world to come). A person is judged if they are a ben olam habah (someone who will merit olam habah). What does that mean? That it is decided what help/ tools they will be given to do mitzvos/ learn Torah, depending on what they themselves want. If Hashem sees, chalila, that a person is only interested in gashmius, money etc, they will receive the tools in the coming year to continue on that path. But if their aspirations are ruchnius (spiritual) Hashem will write and seal them to get siyata dishmaya (Heavenly help) to go that way (and this is every time we daven just for chayim).

By taking on something, even small, and even for a limited amount of time, we show Hashem that we are interested in the path of Olam Haba - ie that's what we want. Then Hashem will seal us in the Sefer haChayim, the book of life, and He himself will give us the tools during the year to help us reach that goal.

HooRYou

Sun, Oct 05 2008, 5:03 am

This is from the Daily Halacha emails. It does not explain why but it does give sources for anyone who wants to find out more.

Hilchos Chodesh Elul

583. During the year it is permitted for one to eat "Pas Palter" (kosher bread or other items baked by a non-jew commercially) although one may generally not eat "Pas Akum" (kosher bread baked by a non-jew for personal consumption) anytime because Chazal sought to limit social interaction with non-jews. Shulchan Aruch YD 112 Rama 2, Halacha Berurah Vol.6, Iss. 3

584. However, during the Aseres Yemei Tshuvah, {from Rosh Hashanah through Yom Kippur} one should be stringent, and not eat "Pas Palter" (kosher bread or other items baked by a non-jew) at all. Shulchan Aruch w/Mishnah Brurah 603:1

[Note: Nowadays there are some who have taken upon themselves the Chumra (stringency) to avoid eating "Pas Palter" anytime.]

↑ octopus

Sun, Oct 05 2008, 8:31 am

beautiful post, shalhevet! Tremendously appreciated!