Soo disappointing, Concert Vent

amother

Green ↓

Yesterday at 2:10 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Omg. Why do people not know the difference between not Jewish and not religious??? Are you five years old?

Omg why do people not understand the difference in context??? Are they five years old?

/
I have no skin in this game. But if I pay a premium to take my daughters to a Jewish, frum, mainstream concert, I don't want to see a style of dancing that's not in line with mainstream bais Yaakov standards. (And before anyone comments...that's who this particular singer's target audience is.)

With all due love and respect for non frum people, in this context, theres nothing wrong with generalizing and upon observing that the dancers who weren't dressed like Jews, didn't dance like by girls, and didn't speak like Jews, wondering why there were non Jewish dancers there. If one of them happened to have a Jewish mother, it doesn't change the essence of the question.

↑ fmt4 ↓

Yesterday at 2:52 pm

amother Mintcream wrote:

Why do you think they are Jewish?
People think that they're not Jewish, because they obviously didn't look Jewish.
Nothing wrong or sheltered with thinking that people that don't look or behave Jewish, aren't Jewish.

What does look Jewish mean?????
Again, that is a five year old thing to say. When my five year old says that, I explain that “looking Jewish” is not a thing and that Jews can look all kinds of ways. Some may look frum or religious, others not.
Children get it, why can’t you?

Last edited by fmt4 on Tue, Oct 22 2024, 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ fmt4 ↓

Yesterday at 2:53 pm

amother Green wrote:

I’m sorry that you think that only BY girls are Jewish. You need to get out more.

amother

↑ Darkblue

Yesterday at 3:16 pm

fmt4 wrote:

So then don’t assume that they’re not Jewish. Say secular. Also, they are likely to be Jewish if they are part of a Jewish concert.

If you choose not to display your Jewishness publicly, no one owes you anything. It’s not on other people to figure it out, if you want to assimilate into non Jewish society then many people will not see any identification that you are Jewish and will assume you are not. That’s your choice

amother

↑ Green ↓

Yesterday at 3:18 pm

fmt4 wrote:

I’m sorry that you think that only BY girls are Jewish. You need to get out more.

That's entirely not what I said. But I'll spell it out:

At a BY-standards concert, that people are paying a premium for, they don't want to see non-jewish style dancing. Whether the professional dancers hired from some random company have Jewish heritage is irrelevant. It doesn't make the dancing better.

And if they want to be more inclusive, and they want to have this kind of dancing to cater to all Jews, great. Beautiful. (Sincerely!) But please advertise that that will be the style so people can make informed decisions. Respect goes both ways.

Eta, the poster very mildly wondered why there were not Jewish dancers. Yes, I suppose she could have said "not Jewish or maybe just not yet observant dancers". And maybe she even should have said "why was the dancing more secular in style that this singer and her audience usually are known for". But to start accusing and making a big deal that MAYBE some of these irreligious dancers were Jewish by birth is missing her point grossly.

↑ fmt4

Yesterday at 3:48 pm

amother Slategray wrote:

I work in Kiruv and one of my students was actually one of the dancers last night!! I was so excited for her that she got a taste of using her talents for a female audience. She is Israeli and was recruited to dance there. I think it was such an amazing experience for her.

Did you not see this post? It seems like Bracha Jaffe did a wonderful thing and recruited dancers who were maybe in the process of becoming religious. Your attitude is the opposite of that.

amother

↑ Strawberry

Yesterday at 3:57 pm

amother Green wrote:

You're post reminds me of a very funny conversation I had with someone a while back. Lol.
Green, I love every post of yours on here! Why can't a post be liked more than once? I'm so curious what your SN is.

amother

↑ Mintcream ↓

Yesterday at 3:58 pm

fmt4 wrote:

It is not a 5 year old thing to assume that every random person is a jew.
Most people are not Jewish. So it's perfectly acceptable to assume that a person that doesn't look or behave Jewish, is not Jewish. This isn't something to get so offended over.
If I see a mostly naked women at the beach, there's nothing wrong with assuming that she's not Jewish. It's her problem, not mine.

amother

↑ Mintcream

Yesterday at 4:00 pm

fmt4 wrote:

You really need to stop saying “ Jewish by birth” or “some Jewish heritage.” Jewish is Jewish. If someone is taking part in a Jewish performance, one should assume they are Jewish unless proven otherwise. And dance moves and clothing don’t prove anything.

And btw, several people on this thread said that they enjoyed the dancing. So obviously the audience is more diverse than you think.

It was proven otherwise, as many Jewish concerts have non jewish bands. So if the bands at jewish concerts are not jewish, there's nothing wrong with assuming that the dancers aren't jewish.

amother

↑ Green

Yesterday at 9:54 pm

fmt4 wrote:

Did you not see this post? It seems like Bracha Jaffe did a wonderful thing and recruited dancers who were maybe in the process of becoming religious. Your attitude is the opposite of that.

I disagree.

Again, if I paid for my daughters and I to go, based on the belief that it was a BY style concert, I don't want to see non-jewish style dancing. There's a time and place for kiruv, exposing my daughters to that style in such a way that they'll subtly absorb it as ok, is not it.

I have all the respect in the world for people becoming religious. It's huge. But that dance style is not for us. I don't see beauty in integrating it into our community in the name of kiruv.

R' Yisrael Salanter is said to have said that people should be extra careful when doing kiruv because of they're not careful "the broom that sweeps can get dirty". My girls are young and impressionable and trust me when I say something is or isn't for us. They don't need to see that at this concert.

If this concert is a kiruv effort, or isn't her usual style, please let us know so I can decide if it's appropriate for my family. Not everything has to be for everyone, I'd happily sit one out and cheer from the sidelines if she's branching out in this way.

(To be clear, once again, I'm not blaming this dancer, or any of the dancers, Jewish or not. I think the blame lies on the producers who made this decision and ok'ed the choreography.)

amother

Cadetblue

Yesterday at 10:04 pm

amother Green wrote:

Can you clarify what exactly it was about the dancing that was so offensive that you would be afraid for your dd to see it?

And it was mentioned above that some of the dancers are Jewish and Israeli.

Also a 2 hour concert is pretty standard, hardly super short.

amother

Whitewash

Yesterday at 10:13 pm

amother Green wrote:

I wasn't at the concert but I did see that music video so I have a pretty good idea what you're talking about. I also come from the same community as you and I agree with you 100%.

-There's nothing offensive about assuming someone who looks non-Jewish and about whom you have no reason to believe they are Jewish, is in fact a non-Jew.

-Non-Jewish dancers performing with Jewish music artists is nothing new. Except they usually keep it to the music videos and leave the concerts for the Jewish performers only. This is something new, and yes, it should be called out before it becomes acceptable.

-Bracha caters to the BY-girl crowd. This kind of dancing is not considered okay in that crowd. You can like that or hate it, but it's facts. Consequently, it's wrong to bring this kind of dancing to an event catering to this crowd, especially with no advance warning.

Even if you don't agree with this community's attitude in this area, there's no reason you can't respect the concept of standards being upheld by a performer who caters to this crowd. Respect goes in all directions, you know.

amother

↑ Yarrow

Yesterday at 10:21 pm

amother Whitewash wrote:

Agreed but we are wasting our time trying to explain this to imas outside for community . I'm glad posters bought this up to spread awareness ...
No need to spend so much emotional energy defending our sensitivities.
I require all my kids to read 'all for the boss' for this reason. So many things Jewish people do are really wrong but since majority do it we all think it's OK. Its not !!!