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-> Vacation and Traveling
amother
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 Tue, Oct 08 2024, 12:49 pm
I’m trying to understand what does this mean that a Shul only allows people from the neighborhood to join? What would be the reason to not allow others to walk over?
If someone understands I’d love to understand what the reasoning would be. Thanks.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 12:51 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I’m trying to understand what does this mean that a Shul only allows people from the neighborhood to join? What would be the reason to not allow others to walk over?
If someone understands I’d love to understand what the reasoning would be. Thanks. |
You mean they don’t want to be an air bnb shul or summer home shul?
Or they don’t want neighbors from 20 min away to walk over?
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amother
Arcticblue
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 12:52 pm
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I'm not sure where you're going but I'm going to away for yt and I had no idea but the place I am going to does not allow outsiders. They are charging a separate resort fee which includes access to davening and programs. Maybe this so the case where you're going also. I happen not to agree with it but I do hear where they're coming from. It's a place where if they would allow outsiders they would probably have a couple hundred people more which they don't want and can't accommodate.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 12:55 pm
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I assume that this place is a big vacation destination where travelers outnumber local residents during peak vacation times. If so, I understand the issue, although it would be nice if there was some alternative shul provided for travelers for a reasonable fee.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 12:57 pm
| amother Arcticblue wrote: | | I'm not sure where you're going but I'm going to away for yt and I had no idea but the place I am going to does not allow outsiders. They are charging a separate resort fee which includes access to davening and programs. Maybe this so the case where you're going also. I happen not to agree with it but I do hear where they're coming from. It's a place where if they would allow outsiders they would probably have a couple hundred people more which they don't want and can't accommodate. |
It's very normal for a resort/hotel to not allow people that aren't part of the program to join their shul. People paid for it, alot of money & work goes in to arranging a shul. They arrange the shul to accommodate people that are part of the program. They generally can't accommodate random people that decide to join their shul.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 12:59 pm
Thanks all for posting, I’m actually not sure if that neighborhood is all year round or just vacationers.
I do somewhat understand now. It’s possible there is a fee but I can’t seem to find info. I would have no problem paying a fee, I think that makes a lot of sense.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 1:04 pm
Our shul has been discussing such a thing recently.
We live in a development that we established and built with like-minded families, we established the bylaws so the HOA fees are high but they include the shul. Essentially the HOA and shul membership are bundled together. Though we do sell seats for Yomim Tovim.
But the shul is not big though it has a mens and women's mikva. And a park right outside.
Over the past 5 years, more houses have been built or sold. No one is opening or building new shuls because "theres X shul". The builders build a few houses at a time to not be required to also build shuls (or playgrounds).
But that means there are now dozens of families who come daven, complain, try to add extra minyanim, change the nusach, bring even more family and friends, insist on an amud or Aliyah, insist on cheap Kiddush and mikva prices because there's nothing else nearby.
There has been disrespect towards the Rabbi.
We don't want to restrict people from coming. But if our Rabbi says that girls from 3-5 can only go into the men's section with tights and then not after 5, and *you who lives 2 blocks away* refuse to follow, then we start thinking about restricting.
If *you who rents an AirB&B around the corner* show up with 10 guest for Sukkos, demand an amud because you have a grandparents yahrtzeit and then insist on davening a different nusach and havara then the shul, then we start thinking about restricting.
Etc, etc.
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amother
Topaz
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 1:06 pm
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if it’s in a place that gets lots of tourists this makes a lot of sense. while is menschlech to make a donation of some sort when davening in a shul you use for a vacation, I think we can assume that not everyone does this. which means that lots of people are using the shul and facilities for free and it seems understandable that there are shuls that can’t or don’t want to handle the influx
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amother
Blonde
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 1:09 pm
| amother Opal wrote: | Our shul has been discussing such a thing recently.
We live in a development that we established and built with like-minded families, we established the bylaws so the HOA fees are high but they include the shul. Essentially the HOA and shul membership are bundled together. Though we do sell seats for Yomim Tovim.
But the shul is not big though it has a mens and women's mikva. And a park right outside.
Over the past 5 years, more houses have been built or sold. No one is opening or building new shuls because "theres X shul". The builders build a few houses at a time to not be required to also build shuls (or playgrounds).
But that means there are now dozens of families who come daven, complain, try to add extra minyanim, change the nusach, bring even more family and friends, insist on an amud or Aliyah, insist on cheap Kiddush and mikva prices because there's nothing else nearby.
There has been disrespect towards the Rabbi.
We don't want to restrict people from coming. But if our Rabbi says that girls from 3-5 can only go into the men's section with tights and then not after 5, and *you who lives 2 blocks away* refuse to follow, then we start thinking about restricting.
If *you who rents an AirB&B around the corner* show up with 10 guest for Sukkos, demand an amud because you have a grandparents yahrtzeit and then insist on davening a different nusach and havara then the shul, then we start thinking about restricting.
Etc, etc. |
Why dont they just split it and charge membership or just membership to those outside the development
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amother
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 1:13 pm
| amother Opal wrote: | Our shul has been discussing such a thing recently.
We live in a development that we established and built with like-minded families, we established the bylaws so the HOA fees are high but they include the shul. Essentially the HOA and shul membership are bundled together. Though we do sell seats for Yomim Tovim.
But the shul is not big though it has a mens and women's mikva. And a park right outside.
Over the past 5 years, more houses have been built or sold. No one is opening or building new shuls because "theres X shul". The builders build a few houses at a time to not be required to also build shuls (or playgrounds).
But that means there are now dozens of families who come daven, complain, try to add extra minyanim, change the nusach, bring even more family and friends, insist on an amud or Aliyah, insist on cheap Kiddush and mikva prices because there's nothing else nearby.
There has been disrespect towards the Rabbi.
We don't want to restrict people from coming. But if our Rabbi says that girls from 3-5 can only go into the men's section with tights and then not after 5, and *you who lives 2 blocks away* refuse to follow, then we start thinking about restricting.
If *you who rents an AirB&B around the corner* show up with 10 guest for Sukkos, demand an amud because you have a grandparents yahrtzeit and then insist on davening a different nusach and havara then the shul, then we start thinking about restricting.
Etc, etc. |
You'd think they would rather have their own shul.
-member of a shul that started as a breakaway 
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amother
cornflower
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 1:15 pm
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My brother lives in a neighborhood where lots of people come for vacation. When he made a bar mitzvah he sponsored the sheik kiddish which is open to the public and made a separate bar mitzvah kiddish . All the out of town tourists came to the fancy bar mitzvah kiddish uninvited sat and ate at tables that said reserved for family. People are super entitled and rude.
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amother
Denim
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 1:28 pm
| amother Sand wrote: | You'd think they would rather have their own shul.
-member of a shul that started as a breakaway |
Why would they when they feel this shul caters to their needs and that they can now do as they please because they live in the neighborhood?
Nothing is going to change unless the Rav and vaad come don hard on them.
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amother
Anemone
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 1:28 pm
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My dh was told this by one shul in town, but because they were overcrowded.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 1:28 pm
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Wow so happy I opened this thread, I couldn’t understand why people would care I mean your davening to God and that’s all that matters, but now I’m seeing it really does matter. Also why are guests being so rude?
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amother
Whitesmoke
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 1:33 pm
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In some communities a rule like this might be to prevent driving on Shabbos.
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amother
Ultramarine
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 1:35 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | Wow so happy I opened this thread, I couldn’t understand why people would care I mean your davening to God and that’s all that matters, but now I’m seeing it really does matter. Also why are guests being so rude? |
Not really sure which scenario you are talking about, a second home one? Or you live outside the area.
Unfortuantely people make rules because people are not nice, like the bar mitzva kiddush scenario.
My shul has a sprinkling of tourists and visitors most shabbosim. Maybe its the type of place we are (a little niche) but honestly its a nice bonus to the community. Interesting people get asked to speak, its lovely for our small, isolated community to meet new people. But the key is the numbers involved. The shul is making a kiddush for 100 people, its no big deal if 5-10 extra people turn up. And guests often do make donations. If 200 guests turned up every shabbos in the summer or over Yom tov, I can see that the shul would rethink what to do about it.
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Molly Weasley
↓
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 1:59 pm
| amother Opal wrote: | Our shul has been discussing such a thing recently.
We live in a development that we established and built with like-minded families, we established the bylaws so the HOA fees are high but they include the shul. Essentially the HOA and shul membership are bundled together. Though we do sell seats for Yomim Tovim.
But the shul is not big though it has a mens and women's mikva. And a park right outside.
Over the past 5 years, more houses have been built or sold. No one is opening or building new shuls because "theres X shul". The builders build a few houses at a time to not be required to also build shuls (or playgrounds).
But that means there are now dozens of families who come daven, complain, try to add extra minyanim, change the nusach, bring even more family and friends, insist on an amud or Aliyah, insist on cheap Kiddush and mikva prices because there's nothing else nearby.
There has been disrespect towards the Rabbi.
We don't want to restrict people from coming. But if our Rabbi says that girls from 3-5 can only go into the men's section with tights and then not after 5, and *you who lives 2 blocks away* refuse to follow, then we start thinking about restricting.
If *you who rents an AirB&B around the corner* show up with 10 guest for Sukkos, demand an amud because you have a grandparents yahrtzeit and then insist on davening a different nusach and havara then the shul, then we start thinking about restricting.
Etc, etc. |
You had me until the "havara" issue.
Why do you care if someone has a different havara?
Better yet, you SHOULDN'T care.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 2:05 pm
| Molly Weasley wrote: | You had me until the "havara" issue.
Why do you care if someone has a different havara?
Better yet, you SHOULDN'T care. |
If a shul davens in a specific havara, it is very rude of non regulars to come to the shul & demand that they daven in a different havarah.
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amother
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 2:05 pm
| Molly Weasley wrote: | You had me until the "havara" issue.
Why do you care if someone has a different havara?
Better yet, you SHOULDN'T care. |
There are halchic concerns about being yotzei.
We hold that in order to be yotzei, the chazzan has to say the words of chazaras hashatz, kedusha, Brachos, krias Hatorah in the havara that we hold is halachicly proper.
At your own seat, daven however you want
But if you get up at the amud at a nusach Ashkenaz shul and say Bureech Atu, the people listening likely hold that they have not been yotzei.
There are big name sources that hold that way.
Even if you think they SHOULDN'T care.
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mha3484
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Tue, Oct 08 2024, 2:08 pm
| amother Opal wrote: | There are halchic concerns about being yotzei.
We hold that in order to be yotzei, the chazzan has to say the words of chazaras hashatz, kedusha, Brachos, krias Hatorah in the havara that we hold is halachicly proper.
At your own seat, daven however you want
But if you get up at the amud at a nusach Ashkenaz shul and say Bureech Atu, the people listening likely hold that they have not been yotzei.
There are big name sources that hold that way.
Even if you think they SHOULDN'T care. |
This. When I go to shul I often go to the chassidish shul down my street because they have kids programing and a comfortable womens section vs the kollel my husband and boys daven at. But I was told for megillah I am not yotzei because its not my havara. Its very complicated.
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