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Forum -> Parenting our children

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amother

OP ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:03 am

I’m in desperate need of a chinuch expert. I’m seriously struggling with my parenting. I have 2 children, but most of the problems are with my 4 year old daughter (oldest). She is extremely challenging and makes me feel incompetent and out of control.

I’m young and confident and a capable person in general. My parenting struggles are taking a massive toll on me and it’s making me feel like my life is miserable.

I’ve taken parenting classes, read parenting books and recently started going to therapy for this. I understand that every behavior is really an expression of a need, but I simply cannot access that logic in a calm way during chaotic moments. I get triggered and angry and scream at my daughter.

The most problematic behaviors I see are her constant fighting with my 2.5 year old, and she also never listens to anything I say. She simply says no or ignores me. There are other things as well, like she lies, blames her brother for things she does, is generally out of control and gets upset really easily and can’t calm down. She doesn’t sleep well and wakes up at around 5:30 most days.

For example, just this morning I served them cereal for breakfast. I walked away to get dressed and a minute later I hear my toddler screaming and crying. I come back and I see my daughter quickly running away with a smirk on her face and see that my toddler’s bowl of cereal is thrown all over the floor. She just flipped it over for no reason. Milk and cereal everywhere. I got so mad at her and I smacked her and she didn’t even flinch. She didn’t care. (You don’t need to make me feel bad about the smack. I already berated myself.)

I’m at such a loss. I feel so horrible and hopeless. There are so many times where I feel a complete disconnect from her and don’t feel any love for her. She makes me hate myself. I know this is mostly a me problem and I’m the adult and I need to help her. But how?!

She is so so challenging. She’s always demanding things, screaming, hitting and will only do things her way.

Any experienced imas can weigh in with an opinion, advice, direction?

Any chinuch expert to recommend that I can speak with? We need guidance asap. I’m so sad about this reality.

She’s a beautiful and incredibly smart kid. I know she has a wonderful and successful future ahead of her (if only I can help her). She’s a leader and very lovable. But she is so strong willed and stubborn and absolutely cannot control herself. I know she feels like a bad kid cuz I’m constantly giving attention to her bad behaviors and she’s possibly already internalized that she doesn’t know how to behave.

I sometimes feel like I’m also a child when I’m parenting her. I resort to childish behaviors and tactics when I’m challenged. Clearly we need help.

amother

Bone ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:04 am

You need to evaluate her. Can be asd, adhd or other issues.

amother

Oak

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:14 am

Sounds like she's impulsive.
Maybe you have to try to minimize the time that she could misbehave. That means that for the next few weeks, no leaving them on their own. Supervise and give her lots of compliments for anything she does well.
Don't give her the opportunity to bother her younger sibling.
(I know sounds hard but look at it as a temporary situation until she stops thinking of ways to misbehave as soon as you're not around!)
ETA: an evaluation is a very good idea so you know what are her strengths and weaknesses. Rule out ADHD.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:15 am

amother Bone wrote:

You need to evaluate her. Can be asd, adhd or other issues.

My therapist mentioned it’s possible ADHD but I have a feeling her behavior has more to do with how she feels about herself because of me…because she seems to be doing well in school and doesn’t exhibit any concerning behaviors in the classroom.

It feels to me kind of like a vicious cycle. She makes a mistake, I make her feel bad, which makes her feel worse, which makes her act even worse.

I’m not at all opposed to having her evaluated. I’m just afraid that the behaviors alone will warrant the diagnosis when in reality it may be circumstantial.

amother

Broom

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:17 am

First kudos to you for reaching out.
There is so much to unpack here but your real goal is to be a proactive parent not a reactive parent.
Do you want to do this irl or online? If you want to meet someone in person, can you share where you live?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:19 am

amother Oak wrote:

Thanks for your response! Yes she’s definitely impulsive, but aren’t all kids?!

I like the idea of trying to minimize the chances of her misbehaving so we can work up her confidence. I can think of ways to do this. But supervising them doesn’t help because she also does it in front of me.

But I can take them out more instead of leaving her with so much free time to be bored and make poor choices.

Chayalle ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:21 am

I really feel your pain OP.
BTDT with a child that challenged me more (and BH is settling into being a wonderful young lady).

I'm trying to remember age 4 with my child (over 10 years ago) and I remember two things overall:
* CHOICES. I learned to never tell her to do things, but rather to give her choices. You mention your child is a real leader - she wants to be in charge, so let her, while setting limits she doesn't yet realize of course. So it's not "time to get dressed" it's, do you want to get dressed first, or eat breakfast first? Wear the yellow dress, or the blue one? Who should get into pj's first, you or the toddler? You can make her in charge of things so she feels empowered, and then she doesn't need to put the toddler down or hurt him, because she has enough power without that. Involve her in decision making (what do you think we should have for supper today, pizza or fish sticks? Should we go to the park or play indoors?)
* role playing. This is going to sound weird but I got this idea from my DD's 4 year old Morah, a very veteran Lakewood Morah who is amazing in Chinuch, and it worked! I took two female mentchies from her dollhouse set - or you could use two dolls, whatever works. We named one of them Raizy and one of them Perry (I chose two names that were no one we knew). Raizy was always good and Perry messed things up (or maybe it was vice versa). So in the example of the cereal bowl, Raizy watched her little brother and made sure he ate his breakfast nicely and was nice to him, but Perry spilled out his cereal bowl. Now Perry needs to go to timeout because of what she did, and she's in such trouble. We used to put Raizy and Perry at the breakfast table. Then when the cereal got spilled, my DD would take Perry and put her in a designated timeout spot. Perry got a consequence for what she did.
It sounds strange but over time DD came to realize what the good behaviors were, and the negative ones, and her need to misbehave lessened and her impulsive behaviors came under control. It really worked. Putting the mentchy in timeout instead of her drove the lesson across without hurting her (she used to mete out the punishment to her doll herself! She chose the timeout spot, took the mentchy and put her under the table in the corner.....) and she started trying to be more Raizy than Perry.....

Really wishing you Hatzlacha. Talk to someone IRL whom you respect for tips and chizzuk.....it really helped me get thru those years.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:24 am

amother Broom wrote:

Thanks! That’s exactly what I’m trying to do- be proactive. I want to help her. I want to help myself too of course. But my biggest concern is that she’s internalizing this idea that she’s not a good girl and I want her to feel good about herself.

I know with certainty that she has so much to offer and can do a lot of good things in life. She’s very smart and capable and likable. And it’s my job to guide her and bring these traits out. But so far I’m sabotaging that.

I’d prefer in person help, but I’d also do online if that’s what’s necessary. I’m in the US, but not near tristate area.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:41 am

Chayalle wrote:

Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I try to give her choices as much as possible, but will focus on this more. She chooses her clothes on most days and I try to make her feel good about it (even when she wears 2 headbands and 3 bows).

I’m realizing now that she’s really allergic to being controlled. She can’t stand being told what to do. But I don’t think that’s ok. She’s a child and I’m her mother. Sometimes she must be told what to do.

Also, I like the idea of her learning good vs bad behavior from dolls where it’s less personal but still drives the lesson home.

I want to speak with someone IRL but I don’t know anyone near me. I’m gonna ask DH to ask the rav who we can speak with (maybe he’s an expert in chinuch… I don’t know)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:42 am

Just want to add. I booked an appointment with the pediatrician and have some forms to fill out for possible ADHD.

I just really have a feeling it’s not ADHD. She has no issue with focusing. And she doesn’t display any of these behaviors at school.

amother

Sunflower

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:45 am

I’m dealing with same inner parenting struggles and challenges, losing self control etc. due to one of my kids, I can really support with this because I feel like the worst parent and I have no time for therapy due to my kids after school therapies etc. plus a baby

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:51 am

amother OP wrote:

You should have seen what my DD wore to school on her birthday in Primary (they could wear whatever they like, not the uniform. Most girls wore Shabbos dresses....) She chose her own outfit - flowery shirt and skirt, rainboots, tons of beaded necklaces, sunglasses and a floppy orange hat we had in the dress-up box. I have a picture somewhere....when I remind my very fashion-conscious teen about that, she laughs till she's in tears but says she loves her toddler self, she was so funny.

I hear your point that you are her mother and she is your daughter. I agree, but I think that's a long-term goal. Right now at age 4, you have certain behaviors and issues that need addressing, that are more pressing than that.
I sometimes tell my teen now, I said no and I'm your mother. I can explain why, but right now in the moment I can just say no. At this age she is accepting it somewhat more than she did as a tantrumming 4 year old.
Once your daughter becomes more comfortable with herself and feeling less helpless and out-of-control, she will listen to you more readily.

If your child is in school, that might be another place to get a reference for a parenting mentor.

amother

Gardenia

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 6:55 am

I don’t know we’re you are located.
In lakewood there is reach parenting. They have small parenting groups (sometimes schools will even give money towards it).
They also have people you can discuss things 1:1 with.

↑ Chayalle

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 7:00 am

amother Gardenia wrote:

Yes, and that is how I BH got to take Mrs. Trenk's parenting class (back in the day!) and consult her when I had chinuch questions over the years....it's one of Lakewood's most amazing resources IMVHO and everyone should take advantage of it.

amother

Valerian

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 7:01 am

Op do you have attachment issues? If yes, she may have them too. Unfortunately that’s how it works.

Success10 ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 7:03 am

amother OP wrote:

You seem really self-aware. It's very impressive that you are saying it might be an issue with you rather than slapping a diagnosis on the child.

I had something similar with one child. What helped was working very hard on building our relationship from scratch, and leaving behind all resentment and all the hair she made me rip out of my head. It was a process. She's still stubborn and does her own thing, but it doesn't trigger me anymore. And she's more flexible now as a young teen.

amother

↑ Bone

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 7:05 am

If you don’t want to get a diagnosis, being coached for parenting adhd should give you skills that will be more compatible with her needs. Whether it is or isn’t because she has so many similarities.

amother

Ballota

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 7:12 am

amother Gardenia wrote:

Can you post the info for this? Never heard of it and could use it…

Gomama ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 7:13 am

Would positive reinforcement work? Maybe try charts with her? I have a 4 year old too and that works for me like a dream! Also when I feel the need to teach my dd something I try to tell her a story in a calm time about a kid (using different name, not hers). The story punchline is similar to incidence that occur with her and I explain how the other people in the story feel, the lesson comes out stronger when she hears it from a different point of view.

↑ Gomama ↓

Mon, Oct 07 2024, 7:15 am

As a side point the fact she’s not sleeping well can make it really hard for her to control her behaviors. Maybe target that issue first.

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