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Forum
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-> Simcha Section
amother
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 Yesterday at 9:02 am
| amother Hotpink wrote: | Just so you know, when you said small, I was not expecting 23 people KAH!
Small would be my family growing up. I have 1 siblings and one first cousin. |
Ok we're a lot of people altogether knH but I'm one of 5 and non of us have loads of kids. 3 don't actually need a place because they're under 3 they can go on laps. I still thought we'd come before her sisters and their kids. Also they said they can't split us and have 2 families for one meal, and 2 for another. They still said no space.
Minus another 2 that I just realised won't be here as one is married and going back to Israel before Shabbos, and one is back in sem.
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amother
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Yesterday at 9:06 am
| amother Nemesia wrote: | Please don't set this up as a tit for tat situation. They likely have their own chesbonos, and they aren't doing it to hurt you.
Perhaps their calculations was that as you describe - it's about the kids. There are 15 kids among your family and generally people find it challenging to come without kids on Shabbos. You wouldn't have had an off shabbos, cause you would likely need to make shabbos at home for them. Or they didn't want to risk people bringing all their uninvited kids- I've seen that plenty of time too. Or perhaps they have obligations to their extended family members. Or a totally different reason.
Don't take it personally. It's erev RH, so maybe take it upon yourself to keep shalom at all costs, and Hashem should bentch you with an amazing year. |
Amein..I'm not taking it personally but I'm upset.
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amother
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Yesterday at 9:09 am
| amother OP wrote: | Ok we're a lot of people altogether knH but I'm one of 5 and non of us have loads of kids. 3 don't actually need a place because they're under 3 they can go on laps. I still thought we'd come before her sisters and their kids. Also they said they can't split us and have 2 families for one meal, and 2 for another. They still said no space.
Minus another 2 that I just realised won't be here as one is married and going back to Israel before Shabbos, and one is back in sem. |
You're talking about an extra 15+ people that she would have to cook, host, and find space for. Even kids on laps take up space and want floor space to play.
That's a lot of people and it's not easy.
If this was a big, catered even in a spacious hall, following a big, wedding to which all were invited, you could politely make your case to your mother that you think you should be invited.
But it's not. It's a small, in their house, for relatives who are helping to make the meal (and possibly financially too), and who may or may not have been invited to the wedding.
This decision was made to the satisfaction of the chosson, the kallah, and their parents. That's were the attention belongs.
At this point, you might be best off not taking this personally and just being happy for your brother.
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amother
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Yesterday at 9:12 am
| amother Burgundy wrote: | You're talking about an extra 15+ people that she would have to cook, host, and find space for. Even kids on laps take up space and want floor space to play.
That's a lot of people and it's not easy.
If this was a big, catered even in a spacious hall, following a big, wedding to which all were invited, you could politely make your case to your mother that you think you should be invited.
But it's not. It's a small, in their house, for relatives who are helping to make the meal (and possibly financially too), and who may or may not have been invited to the wedding.
This decision was made to the satisfaction of the chosson, the kallah, and their parents. That's were the attention belongs.
At this point, you might be best off not taking this personally and just being happy for your brother. |
The aunts are absolutely going to the wedding!! I'm talking about a 250 people wedding here not a non Jewish tiny one. I have a lot of cousins knH and only a select few will be at the wedding.
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octopus
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Yesterday at 9:18 am
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Sounds like they can't afford to make a huge affair.
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octopus
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Yesterday at 9:21 am
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And as someone who grew up with this type of situation, believe me, they are embarrassed they can't invite everyone. And even a "small" family is a lot of extra work added on top of it. They invited the barest bones minimum to make a minyan plus those in their side who are helping to make the affair. This sounds all too familiar.
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justforfun87
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Yesterday at 9:23 am
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That doesn't sound like a small family when you say how many kids you each have. That in my opinion coming from an actual small family is a TON of kids.
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amother
IndianRed
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Yesterday at 9:29 am
| amother OP wrote: | Ok we're a lot of people altogether knH but I'm one of 5 and non of us have loads of kids. 3 don't actually need a place because they're under 3 they can go on laps. I still thought we'd come before her sisters and their kids. Also they said they can't split us and have 2 families for one meal, and 2 for another. They still said no space.
Minus another 2 that I just realised won't be here as one is married and going back to Israel before Shabbos, and one is back in sem. |
I participated in hosting a home sheva brachos where we were told only x amount relatives from one side of a family was coming and they ended up bringing along others with them including a couple of their kids, and we didn't have enough food. It was very uncomfortable and embarrassing.
Even if kids are sitting on laps, they're still going to be eating and taking up space in what is probably a very crowded area already. And if you invite people who have little kids, you have to be prepared that they may show up with the kids even if it was stipulated adults only or just the adult sibling. So it's easier just not to invite in the first place.
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rising hero
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Yesterday at 9:30 am
Op no offense but youre sounding petty.
Stop making cheshbonos for them. It honestly sounds like you want more a shabbos off than to be there. Just go over after the meal and be part of the simcha.
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amother
Brass
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Yesterday at 9:37 am
| amother OP wrote: | Fwiw my other siblings don't seem to mind not going. One is due around then iyH, one is moving house then. So that leaves 2 of us to do most of the one that we're making. Plus I'm hosting it. I really expected to have a Shabbos off and go to both! At least for one meal but I suppose it's not too be  |
So this is your real reason for wanting to go?
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watergirl
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Yesterday at 9:38 am
| amother OP wrote: | We're a very small family, and so are they so I thought they'd definitely invite us.... My brother and his kalla want a very small wedding.
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| amother OP wrote: | | The aunts are absolutely going to the wedding!! I'm talking about a 250 people wedding here not a non Jewish tiny one. |
| amother OP wrote: | | Ok we're a lot of people altogether knH but I'm one of 5 and non of us have loads of kids. 3 don't actually need a place because they're under 3 they can go on laps. I still thought we'd come before her sisters and their kids. Also they said they can't split us and have 2 families for one meal, and 2 for another. They still said no space.. |
| amother OP wrote: | | I understand that Shabbos is different because our kids need to come too (all have small families) I have 5, one has 6, one, 3 and one, 1 child knH. |
OP, your thought process is interesting. 5 siblings, 15 kids is NOT small. Plus the siblings (5) and spouses (5), you want the chasson's parents to invite 15 kids and 10 adults? That's not small, that's 25 people!
You are also calling 250 people a very small wedding.
I realize compared to other families who have 10+ kids, yours seems small. But 15 children is quite large and significant. 250 people is a massive wedding.
I've hosted sheva brachos and bar mitzvah seudas in my small house (less than 1500 sq. ft.). It's bursting when we have 25 people, and we've stretched it to 30 before. I'm imagining your 25 people (the siblings and kids), your parents, the couple, kallahs parents, and just the kallah's siblings/spouses/kids - how on EARTH do you expect anyone on a tight budget in a home to host and fit that many people?
I get that you are hurt. But please understand, people can only do what they can do. You have five kids. Imagine please yourself as the hosts and you are trying to squeeze blood out of a rock. You just CAN NOT. We have to make cuts when we can and expect that people will be understanding and let it go. It's one shabbos in a IYH long lifetime.
Please try to be more understanding and realistic. Your concept of small is very off.
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amother
Valerian
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Yesterday at 9:50 am
I can understand you're upset.
But a mistake you're making is to think what the other side should be doing, what their cheshbonos are, what you think should happen.
You're better off having the attitude that you can only control your own thoughts and actions, and have no idea what any one else thinks.
You only know your side of the story, there's a whole other side that you may think you understand.. but you don't.
Once you feel that point, you'll be a lot more forgiving.
Mazaltov and enjoy the simchah!
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amother
Ballota
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Yesterday at 9:51 am
| amother OP wrote: | | Right this is all a bit off to me because I'm not used to it. Definitely not the norm for our family. Upsetting for me maybe we won't invite these Aunts to ours on Sunday. Although they're such a small family I'm not sure who else we would! I understand that Shabbos is different because our kids need to come too (all have small families) I have 5, one has 6, one, 3 and one, 1 child knH. But they didn't even say that they'll just invite the siblings only which is an extra 4 adults. If that, because I can't see my brother coming on his own with his wife having just had a newborn or about to. I guess they don't have space for even us 😕 |
As another point of reference, I would NEVER invite half of a married couple without their spouse to a Shabbos seudah! I think that that's rude and would sooner invite neither. And I wouldn't accept an invitation to go to a Shabbos seudah without my husband, barring extenuating circumstances.
I'm sure there's a diversity of opinions on the topic, but just bear in mind that they may not even be considering this as an option.
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amother
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Yesterday at 9:52 am
| watergirl wrote: | OP, your thought process is interesting. 5 siblings, 15 kids is NOT small. Plus the siblings (5) and spouses (5), you want the chasson's parents to invite 15 kids and 10 adults? That's not small, that's 25 people!
You are also calling 250 people a very small wedding.
I realize compared to other families who have 10+ kids, yours seems small. But 15 children is quite large and significant. 250 people is a massive wedding.
I've hosted sheva brachos and bar mitzvah seudas in my small house (less than 1500 sq. ft.). It's bursting when we have 25 people, and we've stretched it to 30 before. I'm imagining your 25 people (the siblings and kids), your parents, the couple, kallahs parents, and just the kallah's siblings/spouses/kids - how on EARTH do you expect anyone on a tight budget in a home to host and fit that many people?
I get that you are hurt. But please understand, people can only do what they can do. You have five kids. Imagine please yourself as the hosts and you are trying to squeeze blood out of a rock. You just CAN NOT. We have to make cuts when we can and expect that people will be understanding and let it go. It's one shabbos in a IYH long lifetime.
Please try to be more understanding and realistic. Your concept of small is very off. |
I hear you but the kalla is the oldest of 6 knH.
So from their side they're max 11 with grandparents. So that's without the aunts and their children. They have quite a big house actually but that's not my business plus it's the food, I get it. I'm just surprised and upset that they're not making at least one in a hall, or something bigger to invite us to one of the meals. It's the norm in my family, and with it being my last sibling to get married I'm pretty shocked and upset by it. I'm not going to make a scene don't worry. I'm just venting here, and wondering if that's normal.
I guess I'm in the minority here that thinks it's not normal.
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amother
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Yesterday at 9:55 am
| amother Ballota wrote: | As another point of reference, I would NEVER invite half of a married couple without their spouse to a Shabbos seudah! I think that that's rude and would sooner invite neither. And I wouldn't accept an invitation to go to a Shabbos seudah without my husband, barring extenuating circumstances.
I'm sure there's a diversity of opinions on the topic, but just bear in mind that they may not even be considering this as an option. |
For my niece's the ones hosting invited both me and my husband but we couldn't both go and leave the kids. We have older ones too so it's not like my husband would be left having a meal with baby's. He was very happy for me to go on my own. I had his blessing! Whilst they missed me that's one meal in a blue moon. I missed both meals before, and y't meals when I was in hospital having a baby etc. they survive! And it was all good.
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watergirl
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Yesterday at 9:59 am
| amother OP wrote: | I hear you but the kalla is the oldest of 6 knH.
So from their side they're max 11 with grandparents. So that's without the aunts and their children. They have quite a big house actually but that's not my business plus it's the food, I get it. I'm just surprised and upset that they're not making at least one in a hall, or something bigger to invite us to one of the meals. It's the norm in my family, and with it being my last sibling to get married I'm pretty shocked and upset by it. I'm not going to make a scene don't worry. I'm just venting here, and wondering if that's normal.
I guess I'm in the minority here that thinks it's not normal. |
Ok. So the couple (2), their 11 base level, your parents (2), your siblings and spouses (10) and your 15 children = 40 people. That is MASSIVE for a home, even a large one.
But you are upset they are not spending even more so they can make it in a hall. I hear you. Vent away! That is what this site is for! Ask a question if this is acceptable, that also is what this site is for!
If they don't have the money to make a sheva brachos in the hall, what do you want them to do in order to make it happen? I am SURE you are not implying you want them to go into debt so you can attend a shabbos sheva bracha.
The norm may be to go into debt to make everyone happy, but it should not be. What this family is doing - spending within their means - THAT should be the norm.
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amother
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Yesterday at 10:06 am
| watergirl wrote: | Ok. So the couple (2), their 11 base level, your parents (2), your siblings and spouses (10) and your 15 children = 40 people. That is MASSIVE for a home, even a large one.
But you are upset they are not spending even more so they can make it in a hall. I hear you. Vent away! That is what this site is for! Ask a question if this is acceptable, that also is what this site is for!
If they don't have the money to make a sheva brachos in the hall, what do you want them to do in order to make it happen? I am SURE you are not implying you want them to go into debt so you can attend a shabbos sheva bracha.
The norm may be to go into debt to make everyone happy, but it should not be. What this family is doing - spending within their means - THAT should be the norm. |
In our circles 40 is a small Sheva berochos! Even in a house. Also generally the hosts for Shabbos Sheva berochos expect a lot more people because you invite everyones kids too.
For my niece's in my house we had 45+ people on a weekday. We expect this one to be smaller but not by that much.
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amother
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Yesterday at 10:11 am
Another reason why I'm upset is because my mother's friend offered to make one of the Shabbos Sheva berochos and she declined because her husband is in aveilus and she didn't think it was allowed for him to host a Sheva berochos. If they were happy to then who cares?! She has a very big house and enjoys doing these things. We siblings definitely would've been invited.
Plus I feel bad that the kalla's parents are making both. It's a LOT! Especially after making a wedding. My mother could've let her friend take one. She declined the offer.
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watergirl
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Yesterday at 10:11 am
| amother OP wrote: | In our circles 40 is a small Sheva berochos! Even in a house. Also generally the hosts for Shabbos Sheva berochos expect a lot more people because you invite everyones kids too.
For my niece's in my house we had 45+ people on a weekday. We expect this one to be smaller but not by that much. |
I really hear you. You’re taken off guard because this is different than what you’re used to.
I personally would love to see MORE people going back to doing what they can afford to do. Throw out expectations of “what’s done” and just do what you can.
This host can’t afford a hall or a larger crowd. So it’s on everyone else to be understanding, not shame them, and move on.
ETA - I’m getting the feeling of that an interest of shalom, Your parents did not push hosting one of the shabbos sheva brachos. That is very honorable. In what will be IYH A very long life full of many more simchas, moving past the stuff and just aiming for peace is the only way to move forward.
Last edited by watergirl on Wed, Oct 02 2024, 10:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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