Hosting dilemma | Imamother

amother

DarkMagenta

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 2:58 am

amother Arcticblue wrote:

Why is everyone saying she can't back out? She never said yes. That's not called backing out.

Two weeks ago they discussed RH and she told her daughter she can't have her this year.
Her daughter doesn't like that and keeps on asking. But she keeps on saying it won't work.

OP, good time for boundaries....

Based on OP responses, it seemed that OP said yes but once the other siblings asked to come, 2 weeks ago she called to back out.
Im confused by everyone saying to set boundaries and she shouldn't rely on you this much. There is clearly a strong reason she wants to come. Maybe it's even to spend the time with siblings, maybe her son who dorms by OP really wants to be there for yuntif. Who knows. But if OP was canceling all her kids, then fine. But to cancel only 1 is wrong.

amother

↑ Arcticblue ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 3:11 am

amother DarkMagenta wrote:

No I don't see that at all.
To me it looks like the daughter has an expectation of being there, and is not accepting the fact that she is not invited this year.
The others are.
Maybe they never discussed it until two weeks ago, and the daughter was assuming she can come. But OP doesn't have to invite her just because of this assumption/expectation. She has reasons why it doesn't work for her this time.

Your last sentence is the most confusing - because she is not inviting one specific child, then she can't invite anyone Confused

how does that make sense

amother

Copper

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 3:12 am

I think that it is not nice to cancel 2 weeks before YT if you are having other kids instead. Right now, you messed up by saying they could come and then backing out. All while allowing other families to come instead of them. Suck it up and do this 1 last time. Yes, they should have taken a no 2 weeks ago. But you are both wrong in this situation.Tell this family that they need to bring linen, sleep in 1 room, cook a list of dishes etc.

A few months after YT, tell all families that they need to start making YT on their own. Say you would love to spend YT with them and are happy to come to them if they want to invite you. The end.

amother

↑ Arcticblue

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 3:14 am

amother Copper wrote:

OP, I think it would be very helpful if you clarify this point.
Is that what happened?

amother

↑ Orange ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 3:51 am

zaq wrote:

Her kids aren't coming unannounced. They're doing worse: they're defying her express wishes. They asked to come, she said no, they don't accept her decision and keep hounding her. That's not merely inconsiderate, it's downright obnoxious, to say nothing of a complete transgression of Kibbud Em. Yes, they are treating her like a servant, and that has to stop. We don't know if they will show up anyway, but I wouldn't be at all surprised. They need to be taught a lesson, and if having to make their own beds on the floor because there aren't enough beds in the house will do the trick, so be it. Surely they are old enough and intelligent enough to count on their fingers and figure out that mom's house is not big enough to hold the entire tribe. So who should sleep on the floor--Mom and Dad?

So dig your heals in and enjoy the repercussions of being right and showing them you won't budge

amother

Aquamarine

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 5:49 am

Chayalle wrote:

I think we have created a monster if parents who hosted their married child for 17 years have repercussions if they say it's too hard for them now.

I say this as a mother who loves hosting and giving to my kids and I believe in soft landings, hosting them for quite a while, cooking for them when I can, doing whatever I can, etc....but also proud that they are growing wings and becoming more self reliant as time goes on.

I think we agree. But you have to give a reasonable amount of notice if there has been a pattern of coming. 2 weeks in advance for Rosh Hashanah can be very difficult. Seats and childcare often need to be planned well in advance. Pesach and Sukkos also would need more planning. It's fine to say no, and if you are asked for the first time at that point, it's fine to say no. But if they've been coming regularly, you have to say no months in advance and stick to it. And yes, you can tell them after the chag a year before and expect them to remember. And emergencies are different.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 5:52 am

amother Orange wrote:

I really dont think you can say no.

You are hosting 3 out 4 children and canceling on one of them?

You shouldn't do that.

Just squish.

What you can do is set boundaries.

Hello kids. I am buying lots of challa rolls and making very simple easy to warm up food. Lots of snacks as well. Since rosh Hashanah is such a busy and hard to schedule yom tov, I expect the following:

Everyone can make their meal when it is convenient for them and they get home from shul. Warm up your food amd use challa rolls. Everyone clean up and leave the kitchen and dining room pleasant for whoever is eating next.

I'm so happy to have you join us. I will be in shul most of the day and therefore not available to serve and clean up throughout the day and varying schedules.

Looking forward to eating and chilling together over shabbos! Baruch Hashem for 3 day yomtov!

I didn't hug any of your posts, and I'm going to try to explain where I disagree with you.

I think the relationship between parents and marrieds absolutely has to allow for the parents to be able to say No. It's unhealthy that parents have to be the shmatta. And it's healthy for children to grow up and be able to handle their own lives.

I can tell you that I was young married when both my mother AH and my MIL AH were sick with their final illnesses. This sometimes necessitated my making my own YT, and sometimes even hosting others. It sure wasn't easy (I remember just breathing the first time I lit candles making my own Pesach, saying to myself I am here! I am alive! And I have food! And yes, I was hosting my parents, single siblings, and a married sibling and her kids. My oldest was 5 1/2.) What it did is, built me as a person, built us as a family. We learned that we could do things we would've thought we couldn't. We could make a Pesach. We could make a Succos. Oh BTW I also worked full time and still managed these BH. Also did it the year I had a new baby a week before Pesach. Necessity is the mother of invention.

When we as parents keep giving in to kids, they just don't grow up themselves.

And also, the dynamics of "just squishing" everybody for a 3 day YT can be too hard for everyone, on top of all the meals that must be served. Giving in to the oldest makes it less pleasant for everyone else, not just OP. It's alot of people sharing a little space.

I think those boundaries you mention are great if they work for OP and her situation, but we are hearing how very difficult it will be for her. A parent has to be able to say No, especially to a very adult child who has space and should grow up past her self-imposed limitations. Unless there's something very extenuating here which we haven't heard about, I don't see why she can't be told she needs to dig in and grow up.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 5:58 am

amother Aquamarine wrote:

I hear. I wonder if OP really has been saying No, and for some reason this child is not accepting the reality. Which may be it's own issue, and something is going on there.

You know, the year of COVID, my little sister made Pesach herself - they were a young couple with one toddler. And she told me afterwards how absolutely beautiful it was, and so focused on her toddler who got all the attention of his parents and sat at the Seder with his face shining...... And what I heard from her and others like her was how many couples learned that they could do it themselves. It could be basic and simple and beautiful. Alot of the pressure of extras fell away.

I think this is a message we can give our children. RH can be made in two weeks. It doesn't have to be elaborate. You can even do some of it on YT itself if you haven't had advance time (I personally like to make some things fresh, and with my oven on I often pop some things in before going to shul, there's plenty of time for it to bake as shul is over later). You can manage and keep it simple and beautiful.

amother

↑ Amaranthus

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 7:08 am

amother Aquamarine wrote:

Do people plan rosh hashana months in advance? Childcare? A couple weeks should be plenty time to prepare.

amother

↑ Crocus

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 7:18 am

There’s two issues here that concern me. First is that it seems OP was planning on having this child, then other children asked if they could come and she said yes, then she got overwhelmed and is trying to cancel on the first child. If OP is overwhelmed she should’ve said no to the last child, and if not it would be more fair to cancel on the last one to make plans than the first.

The other issue is this oldest child refusing to take no for an answer. Is she a very difficult person in general? If not, I’d be worried that there’s something bigger going on in her life right now and I’d therefore go out of my way to accommodate.

amother

↑ Orange ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 7:29 am

Chayalle wrote:

Telling a child that they are uninvited and their 3 siblings are invited is different than what you describe.

amother

↑ Orange

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 7:32 am

Chayalle wrote:

This child asked to come first. Now mom wants to cancel on her because younger siblings asked to come later.

That is what's not ok. Saying no originally would have been fine.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 7:38 am

amother Orange wrote:

Telling a child that they are uninvited and their 3 siblings are invited is different than what you describe.

I'm wondering if that's what happened or that oldest has been coming for 17 years and therefor feels they are automatically invited every year for RH, and should take priority over everyone else. Like they have their spot, their shul, this is RH for them and they are unwilling to change.

I used to have a certain relative who came to me a few years in a row on a certain YT. And it was like a given that they came every year. One year I had a new baby not so long before that YT, and I remember that when I was still in the hospital, this relative said to DH - we are coming for that next YT, just to let you know..... They were already staking out their claim. (some time after that I phased that out, it was too much for me.)

OP needs to phase out oldest coming every year because other children also deserve a chance to come, and it needs to be such that it's pleasant for all. Plus she is getting older and her needs are not being met with this plan. It sounds like she has been giving her child enough time to plan YT, and that child is old enough to to do. Perhaps they are so used to RH by OP with wherever it is they daven, that they are resisting a new plan. But that's what they need to do. It's part of growing up.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 7:40 am

amother Orange wrote:

This child asked to come first. Now mom wants to cancel on her because younger siblings asked to come later.

That is what's not ok. Saying no originally would have been fine.

It's hard to know how it played out. I know someone whose relative tells her in-laws way in advance all the times they will want to come, so that they make sure they are always "first" to claim the space before everyone else. I'm not sure that "first come, first serve" has to always be a parents' policy. They can have a discussion with a child about what works for them, and a mature child is a mentch and accepts that their parents are human and also have needs.

amother

Lightyellow ↓

Mon, Sep 30 2024, 9:20 am

amother Orange wrote:

Telling a child that they are uninvited and their 3 siblings are invited is different than what you describe.

I don't agree. The oldest had her time for 17 years, and now it's time to step aside and make room for others.

Also, often it's logistics that matters. The oldest possibly has a larger family than the others and therefore greater needs. If there's only so much a mom can handle, she may need to disinvite two (or maybe even 3) of the 4 to accommodate the older family with the greater needs.

The oldest has had more than her share for 17 years. It's time to pull herself up by the bootstraps. If anything, after 17 years of being catered to, perhaps she should step up and invite her parents.