Grocery s/o | Imamother

amother

↑ Navy ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 7:48 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

????
We are talking about common courtesy. It's a Jewish middah to honor our elders , not dependent on your personal judgment whether they deserve it or not.
Younger should have moved wagon and not crash head first on older ones wagon.

Elders means old age. It doesn’t mean someone 5 minutes, a year or ten years older than you…

↑ Trademark ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 8:37 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I would say it's a Jewish midday to respect everyone from young to old. But specifically because they are older than you?

And let's say you're right, this is not the 19-year-old asking.

If you want to be respected you have to earn it, that's how the world works.

And if you're a rude and obnoxious 30 year old, no one will respect you even if they are 15 years younger.

amother

↑ Dustypink ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 8:56 am

amother Navy wrote:

In regards to required respect its old age.

There are different levels of respects. Full respect for seniors is required, but there is still a level of respect required for those who are older than you. A 20 year old should have a level of respect for a 40 year old for example. If it comes down to stepping aside, the 20 year old should be the one graciously doing it.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 9:05 am

Trademark wrote:

So acc to you and SA, OP hadn't earned her respect and deserved the attitude she got in the supermarket. Olam Hafuch.
Please tell me how OP was a rude 30 yr old? All she did was ask in a reasonable way to pass. This happens often.

↑ Trademark

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 9:08 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I'm not saying that she wasn't respectful. I wasn't there so I wouldn't know, I'm just bringing up the possibility.

And as I said in my post I agreed the girl was rude. But if you live in reality and you weren't respectful don't expect respect in return.

Again just bringing up the possibility, the OP herself admitted that she forgot to say please.

And again, if the 19-year-old was posting here we will tell her even if OP was rude it's not right to answer that way. But it's the OP who is asking, and we are telling her that you have to earn respect you can't just demand it from everyone around you who is younger.

kenz

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 9:12 am

OP I don’t think anyone deserves that the other person should move first but I definitely agree that a response of “no, you move” is absolutely rude and disrespectful. If it were my daughter I would be ashamed. And if she has a reason like she is injured and any extra movement is difficult (unlikey, but DLKZ) there’s still a menschlich way to speak.

↑ singleagain

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 9:13 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Excuse me!? I never said OP deserved the attitude. I just asked for clarification was there room or not.

Bc first she said there was no room then she said she was able to move. So either there was room or not. Right of way /way to the road is you move to the side when there is room to do so.

amother

↑ Hibiscus ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 11:45 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

No, it's not reasonable to ask another person to move when you can move just as easily. There was no please involved here according to OP, pretty much just a demand.

Unless it's harder for you to move for some reason, who are you to ask of someone else what you can just as easily do yourself?

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:11 pm

amother DarkCyan wrote:

Maybe the girl has autism or other special needs, you can't know.

Autistic people arent rude, in fact they are usually super polite. And they dont like crowds, they would choose a less crowded time to do their shopping.

If you read the OP, you would know that OP can recognize special needs etc. Why are people finding it hard to identify rude behavior, and are boomeranging back on OP, as if SHE is the problem, when she was mevater. Even if you want to say, both wagons were equal, she asked first. To answer a request with No, YOU move, is rude.
Its ok that the girl was rude, but call it what it was. The girl was asked by a woman 15 or more years her senior to move her wagon (not a big deal really) and answered "No YOU move" and refused to move. If it were my daughter, Id give her a look.

amother

↑ DarkCyan ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:15 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

People with autism aren't purposely rude, no. But they do say what's on their mind and talk without expression. They often don't get social cues either. So they may come across as rude to others, but they're actually not rude at all. There are plenty of people with high functioning autism that live independent successful lives just like any other adults. Including sometimes being in crowded places. You often can't till if someone has high function autism.
And OP was rude just as well. To demand the girl to move just because she's older. OP could've & should've moved when she saw the girl coming from the other side. That's just proper etiquette. Age doesn't come in here.

amother

↑ Yellow ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:21 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

But what gives op the right to demand or tell the girl to move if she can move herself???
We all agree it's rude the way the girl answered but it's not rude to refuse to do something if the one telling you to do it can do it as easily.

amother

↑ Yellow ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:24 pm

Everyone who is saying age does come in hand here, when you are driving and their is an option for you and the other car to move to let eachother go, before you move to the side to you check if the other driver is older than you and move and if they look younger you stay in the middle of the road and make them pull in?
This is how it's sounds like from all your posts.

amother

↑ Dustypink ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:31 pm

amother Yellow wrote:

Oh come on, it's not even a close comparison. You don't see the other driver, and there are road etiquettes to keep the road moving along smoothly.

Maybe make it more personal to understand. If it would be your aunt who is about 15 years older than you asking you to move aside, would you even think to respond that she should move instead? I doubt it, you would have some basic level of respect for her.

Besides, there's a level of courtesy how we treat each other. When someone asks you to make room and move aside, it's rude to respond 'you move'. Sounds like something a 5 year old would do. So it's even more rude when you do that to someone significantly older than you.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:56 pm

amother Yellow wrote:

A request in the supermarket to move ones cart is not the same a "demand". Any normal person would just move the cart, whats the big deal? OP did exactly that when she saw who she was dealing with - its just off to respond to a such a simple request to move a cart with "no YOU move".
As I wrote, all this backlash on OP just tells me what an Olam Hafuch this is.

amother

↑ Navy ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 12:59 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Any normal person moves to the side automatically and does not stand in the way and say move. The op was not correct at all. Everyone should be courteous at all times. It never occurred to me to walk down the aisle saying you are older I’ll move, but you are younger you’ll move for me. It’s terrible middos to walk around with all these thoughts and calculations, just be a good person period, enough with the cheshbonos.

amother

↑ Dustypink

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 1:23 pm

amother Navy wrote:

Huh? Why? It could very well be that someone is taking their time in an aisle and you just need to get thru. There is nothing appropriate asking the other person if they mind moving aside so that you can get thru. There is something very inappropriate though to respond 'You move'. If it doesn't work for that person to move, she can respectfully respond why it doesn't work for her. There is never a reason to respond like this 19 year old did. But there is plenty of scenarios where its ok to ask the other person to make room.

amother

↑ Navy ↓

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 1:28 pm

amother Dustypink wrote:

In this case they were both walking towards each other. The op is 1000% wrong. And even more so because she acted this way since she walks around with cheshbonos of who does what based on ages. That’s just terrible middos. It’s using the Torah to excuse bad behavior, it’s not at all what it means when it discusses elders or respect.

amother

↑ Hibiscus

Thu, Sep 26 2024, 1:31 pm

amother Dustypink wrote:

But that's not the scenario OP painted at all. She said they were both moving towards each other, and one of them had to move to allow for the other to pass. That's not the same at all as one person blocking the aisle and someone walking by asking them to please move so they can pass.

OP was wrong here and it's very likely her request and tone prompted the 19 yo to respond with disrespect.

Also, even when it's okay to ask someone else to move, it's never okay not to ask politely, with a 'please'. This is literally what we teach our two year olds. An adult should know better.