What's the obsession with "dips" for every shab

↑ Ema of 5

Mon, Sep 23 2024, 10:50 pm

amother Lotus wrote:

I completely agree, OP, and with the comment or who said it's making people fat. I think having a "dips" course is so absurd. Perhaps because I didn't grow up frum, I don't think of challah (I.e. bread) as a separate "course," and I think it's really strange frum people have made it that way. In the secular world people don't have bread as an entire separate course. Bread is a side thing. There's a reason why people say "don't fill up on bread" at Italian restaurants. I don't like dips, I don't make dips, and I agree that it's really weird the frum world has decided it's nonnegotiable. Like are you even Jewish if you don't serve dips? Lol.

Many people don’t have it as a separate course. I have actually never seen it as a separate course. I’ve always seen it as challah, dips, salad(s) and fish.

↑ DrMom ↓

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 12:25 am

amother Lotus wrote:

Can we also talk about "Shabbos party"? People act like it's in the Torah, like it's an expected requirement of Shabbos. I think it's weird, my kids don't need to learn to have candy and sweets before bed. Overall I don't respect the overstuff yourself with food and junk all day/night Shabbos mentality. It's truly no wonder people complain about being so fat.

In what circles is this "Shabbos party" a thing?

amother

↑ Moonstone

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 12:36 am

DrMom wrote:

In what circles is this "Shabbos party" a thing?

It's a very nice minhag.

We sit down the kids on Shabbos afternoon, say some words of Torah, if I'm feeling nice I read a story, say a bracha out loud, and have a Shabbos treat. Sometimes it will be a candy treat, but plenty of times it will be frozen or canned fruit (not something I give out daily).

I know in some homes it's a full extravaganza (still have fond memories of going to my cousins and my aunt filling up gallon size bags with potato chips, lollies, winkies, and other fun stuff!) but I think even done simply it's a very nice highlight of Shabbos for children. I also like it for structuring the day around.

↑ DrMom

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 12:45 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

That sounds like such a nice idea (your version, without the excess sweets and junk).

amother

↑ Chocolate

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 1:39 am

amother Lotus wrote:

It goes with the fish course not separate. But also bread is different for a Jew, we need to eat a certain amount in order to bentch. So we can’t just nibble bread like Italians do.

amother

↑ Maroon

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 2:12 am

Mayo based dips when homemade can be much healthier than store bought. I only use light mayo and can only put in a couple spoon fulls for a cup of dip. Also my family is skinny so I don't mind getting some extra fat in them!

amother

↑ Jade ↓

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 2:22 am

amother Jade wrote:

I'm in Israel and until recently first course was an array of dips and salatim. In my experience after living here many years it also became much more widespread than it used to be in terms of the sheer amount served at every meal. I think it may have seeped more into the Ashkenazi community who was exposed it from the Sephardi/ Mizrachi communities and from there to the US and other countries.
I never felt so much peer pressure, but rather that it is a delicious way to start the meal. However, it really does cause us to eat way more Challa than we would otherwise and leaves little room for the rest of the meal. For this reason I have stopped making so much and have one or two at the most.

Actually, with Rosh Hashanah coming up, there is a similar phenomenon with the simanim. Growing up in my Ashkenazi family in Chul we did apple and honey, pomegranate if you could get it, fish head and meren/tzimmes with farfel as the side dishes.

When I moved to Israel I was exposed to the whole expanded range of simanim by my mil who had learned from her Morrocan friend and neighbour. These days, as it has been for past few years , it looks like everyone is onto it with elaborate simanim platters and the internet inundated with recipes for the individual simanim as well as the "sir brachot".

amother

NeonYellow

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 5:44 am

I think this may be somewhat generational. Growing up, Shabbos meals were challah, soup, salad, chicken, rice, fruit, and a cake that my mother baked. Lunch was challah, gefilte fish, and that chicken plus whatever else we had at kiddush. After we visited Israel in 1982, my mother learned to make hummus and tabbouleh, which she served as sides or salads. I only saw a "Shabbos party" once, when we spent Shabbos with a Lubavitch family and they had a huge platter of licorice and candies in the middle of the table. I thought that was really cool, since my family only had candy for yontiff and more like chocolate, nuts, and dried fruit. In shul, we had a special kiddush for the children with cake, cookies, and candy. I am not offended by dips and enjoy salatim in Israel. However, apart from hummus, they are really not part of my repertoire.

amother

Honeysuckle

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 5:56 am

amother OP wrote:

It's a little funny that the "dips" course, even today, is still both: 1) a way to be frugal and fill your guests up on cheap unhealthy stuff to save money on proper food; and 2) a way to be fancy (or to be forced to be fancy) and keep up with the cohens and spend quite a bunch of discretionary money on luxury products.

separately, I also think the "dips" trend is bolstered by the proliferation of instagram, whatsapp, etc. and the corresponding "dips businesses" that wouldnt have been able to market themselves in the way they did before social media.

If you serve sweet gefilte fish or oily kugel , not to mention sugar-loaded challah, chicken or beef recipes, I'm not sure where you come off calling dips "unhealthy" compared to your "real food". They are made with a variety of vegetables and spices unlike traditional Ashkenazi Shabbos food.

dats me

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 8:01 am

Dolly151 wrote:

Can I ask why mayonnaise is more unhealthy than oil? I've made mayo b4 and it's just oil plus an egg and lemon juice. Sounds like pretty equally unhealthy to me

I think homemade mayo is healthy assuming you use a healthier oil such as olive .
Commercial mayo is worse because it’s generally made from seed oils which are known to cause inflammation and other issues, and also the fact that it’s processed and commercial means it probably has preservatives and other ingredients in it that are not healthy .
Most oils are probably just as unhealthy as mayo is. Olive, avocado and coconut oils are the better options.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 9:07 am

Ruchel wrote:

Mayo isn't Ashkenazi... It's not mentioned in my Ashkenazi cookbooks

You mean Ashkenazi East European cooking, right?
Mayonnaise is more French/Spanish cuisine by origin but today it's widespread.

amother

↑ Jade ↓

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 9:08 am

Ruchel wrote:

Mayo isn't Ashkenazi... It's not mentioned in my Ashkenazi cookbooks

Maybe not originally, but in my experience it's pretty much a staple of the Ashkenazi/American kitchen. It was probably adopted by the Ashkenazim who emigrated from Europe at the turn of the 20th century and then again after the holocaust.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Tue, Sep 24 2024, 9:09 am

Ruchel wrote:

Shabbos party? What?
Yes, same for simanim. I'm not picking up stuff my family didn't do. Unless my husband's family did it. I mean random stuff.
Salatim dieticians are begging people to stop

What's wrong with salatim? Doesn't need to be unhealthy.