Double take mishpacha

amother

Blush ↓

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 6:58 am

amother Khaki wrote:

In what world does the employer even have claim? So confused why this is even a double take. I don't even see Meira's side here. Russy is an employee, not a slave or a partner. Meira will learn the hard way how valuable dedicated, well trained employee's are and she will learn not to heavily rely on just one.

Agreed.
This may sound harsh but to most employees, the job is a small part of their life and as long as it works for that they will stay but beyond that they do not have an obligation to be miserable all day or not make enough money or not be there for their kids because the boss is not flexible or not be able to take college courses because their boss is not flexible etc etc.

As long as someone is not breaking the contract they definitely do not have to be staying longer for loyalty or to be nice. Not sure why in the frum World there seems to be this idea that an employee owes something beyond contractual agreements to employers out of mentshlichkeit or yashrus, even at the expense of the employees family, schedule, or mental health.

amother

↑ Charcoal

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 7:39 am

amother Blush wrote:

Yes but to quit just a couple weeks in when your employer specifically needs you for that period of time due to mat leave is really tough. I totally hear that Russy wasn't enjoying the job, but I think she should never have accepted the job in the first place. If she was interviewing in other places as well, she should have waited to hear back from them before accepting this job. Especially if it didn't sound like this was the sort of job that suited her.
Meira sounded like she was willing to be accommodating and in fact quite a nice sounding boss, it was just her line of work wasn't what Russy was looking for.
It comes down to communication. Russy should have been more honest from the start.

amother

↑ Khaki ↓

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 7:50 am

amother Chocolate wrote:

I feel bad for Meira but Russi had a right to do what works for her especially after asking a Rav. On the flip side employers can fire if it’s not working out for them. My dd lost a dream job this way. Oh well it happens.

Exactly, this is not a high school chesed project. Employee and Employer relationships are set in a contract for a reason. If Russi would have turned out to be super incompetent Meira would have replaced her in a second regardless of how many wonderful opportunities Meira passed up to work for her. (And then we could have told the story the other way around...)

amother

↑ Blush

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 7:52 am

amother Charcoal wrote:

In most jobs nowadays there's an understanding that there is a 3-month probation period. Some people think that it's so that an employer can fire the employee that isn't a good fit without having to pay unemployment, but it's also so that the employee who took the job can make sure it's a good fit for them without suffering any repercussions.

I worked in the same job for almost 15 years and I've seen a lot of people come and go.

I found that the girls who left usually left within the first month or 2.

kugelEater ↓

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 7:56 am

amother Charcoal wrote:

True. Also keep in mind that she started training in July. She quit the second week of September because she took august off to go to camp. If at any point between July and September she heard back from any other job, which according to the story it sounds like she did, she should have just quit then, giving Meira more time to find and train in a replacement. Instead, she quit when Meira could have given birth just hours later.
The only thing I thought about the story was that Meira should have put a clause in the contract precluding Russy from leaving before she went on maternity leave. Not legally binding AFAIK but it could have maybe made a difference halachically.

amother

Seagreen ↓

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 8:00 am

amother Charcoal wrote:

Agree with this. It was the timing that I took issue with, not the fact that she is leaving. She literally left her stranded, without much recourse. There is no way Meira would be able to train in someone else now before her maternity leave.

And I also agree that it was due to her immaturity. She naively accepted the job, and did not communicate well with her boss. She should have taken more time to explore what she really wanted before taking on this job. She basically learned a life lesson on someone else's back now.

Personally, I feel she should have stuck it out until after the maternity leave. Her new job doesn't sound like a once in a lifetime chance. It was just a standard run of the mill customer rep job. As for asking Daas
Torah here, did she really communicate her boss's position here properly? Did she explain what position she is leaving her in right now? I feel like that if you do the right thing, things work out well in the end. She would have found another job at that time too. Leave it in the hands of Hashem to work it out for you.

amother

↑ Seagreen ↓

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 8:04 am

amother Khaki wrote:

True, but Meira wouldn't have wasted valuable time training her and would have had the time to train in someone else before her maternity leave.

I don't have issue with Russy leaving to take on another job. I take issue with her timing, leaving her stranded without recourse. At the very least, she should have communicated with her boss that things aren't working well for her and she is unhappy. To drop this bomb in her at the last minute is what was wrong here.

amother

↑ Khaki ↓

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 8:08 am

amother Seagreen wrote:

As somebody in this exact field of work I can say that everything else aside, Meira was being 100% unrealistic. Any seasoned software tech and business owner could have told her that. There is no way a non techy sem graduate can run this business alone for a month.

amother

↑ Seagreen

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 8:17 am

amother Khaki wrote:

I don't disagree with you. It was also unrealistic to hire a new graduate who is still running back to camp in the middle of training. That alone should have given Meira insight that the girl isn't right for this particular job that carried heavy responsibilities.

It comes down to communication as usual. Russy should have communicated her struggles with the job. She shouldn't have had Meira think that everything is going well and then provide notice one day to the next.

↑ notshanarishona

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 8:20 am

I have learned the hard way to only pay people for training period if they stay at least a month and to put that in my contract (training period will be paid at 50% of hourly rate 8 weeks after the start date if employee continues working at … ) . I have had 3 different people over the years that were super enthusiastic and loved the training period , asked tons of questions taking up lots of my time but left as soon as real responsibilities kicked in which to me is extremely wrong (in this case they wanted to learn how to teach swimming for free and then go off and do it on their own).
Yes there is nothing technically wrong with quitting a month into a job but the employer just spent a month or training you for a pay, at least give it a chance for her to gain something from your training.

amother

Peru ↓

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 8:42 am

Employee’s side 100%
She fulfilled her contractual obligations and she even asked a shaila (though she should have told that to her former boss).

I know it’s a bad time for the boss but it’s not her employee’s fault!

The employee has to look out for her own best interests. The Rav okayed it. I don’t even see the other side. When we had a business, it was tough when employees would leave or call out sick on the worst days but that’s part of being a business owner.

amother

Magenta

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 8:43 am

Meira wasnt saying that Russy was legally or halachically wrong. She was saying it wasn't mentchlicht or good midos to leave her stranded right before her maternity leave.
Imagine if it was the other way- a boss letting a woman go a month before her due date because he found someone who fits the job more. He has every legal and halachic right. But it reflects on his lack of midos and I wouldn't judge the employeefor being upset.

The person who really surprised me was the father. A 19 year old girl maybe doesn't know what is considered good midos at work when you aren't being mistreated or underpaid. A mature father shouldn't have reached out to his friend to even offer the job in the first place, putting his daughter on such a quandary. Maybe the time to ask the rav would have been before he reached out to his friend. He could have asked the rav or just his own conscience, "is it proper for me to put my daughter in a situation where she has to choose between her job she committed to with a boss who is depending on her right now and a job that she is more interested in? "

The double take wasn't about legal or halachic rights. Meira never claimed it was. It was about midos. I agree with the poster who said that meira probably learned a hard lesson about hiring the person who is steady and committed over the one who is cheaper or smarter.

amother

↑ Peru ↓

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 8:48 am

amother Magenta wrote:

And I think it’s not metschlich of the owner to not realize that “being mentschlich” here would require the employee to give up a job that’s better for her in every single way, including monetarily.

amother

Eggplant ↓

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 8:48 am

What gets me is that the employee didn't in any way let the employer know that she wasn't all in.

She did a month of paid training, took a month vacation, came back for a week or two, then gave notice.

She already hated the job a week into the paid training. That's the point at which she should have bowed out. Not to complete the training and giving the impression that she was all in, taken her month long vacation (when the employer could have found someone new and trained her!!!), then come back miserable and ready to quit.

It all could have been avoided with better judgement by the employee.

amother

Cerise

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 8:49 am

amother Eggplant wrote:

This is where being 19 and no job experience comes into play

amother

↑ Peru ↓

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 8:53 am

amother Cerise wrote:

This is where being 19 and no job experience comes into play

I am 32 and would never have the guts to tell an employer that the job is boring or that I don’t feel up to the task. I would ask necessary questions and that’s all.

In fact I was at a job where I was the first hire in a small office. The job was ridiculously boring. I stuck it out for 3 years and left as soon as a meaningful job with a better salary was presented to me. Been there for years with no regret. But I never communicated my dissatisfaction to my old employer. I figured part of life is that not every job is so enjoyable and the responsible thing to do is to just show up and do my best as long as it s my job.

amother

Seafoam

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 9:07 am

amother Eggplant wrote:

Agreed. But she’s basically still a kid . . . Presumably she learned that from this incident. That what makes life experience so valuable.

amother

Wheat

Sun, Sep 22 2024, 9:08 am

amother Eggplant wrote:

As others have written, that lack of judgment comes along w 19 and first job.

Boss gets what they pay for. Includung judgment.