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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
amother
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 Thu, Sep 19 2024, 9:56 pm
DD6 is having a very very hard time with reading.
Learning the letters was a big struggle and she still makes some mistakes (pey vs fey).
And os-nekudah she is really having a hard time with. After a lot of effort she learned komatz and patach mostly, tzeirei she sometimes is okay with, segol no matter how many times we review it seems to be hard for her, and although she is getting somewhat familiar with the rest every time it's like she's learning it for the first time.
I can't afford to pay for kriah teacher, but I make time to work with her myself. I've made her worksheets and practice with her regularly but I'm wondering what I'm missing.
It doesn't seem to be (only?) vision-related because even if I tell her the letter and nekudah she is still having a hard time telling me what it says. I hear her sometimes going through the Alef-Beis (segol alef Eh, segol beis Beh) to figure out what a given letter says.
I'd think it might be auditory, because she can't always seem to differentiate the sounds (I'll say Seeeeeeeegol Daled and she'll say Day), but her hearing seems perfectly fine otherwise, and she does a great job rhyming words.
I bought her the Seder Kriah series but it moves too fast through os-nekudah for her. She also didn't find the mouth shapes as helpful/distinct for many of the nekudos.
This is new to me, all of my other kids breezed through kriah without much practice with me. This DD (who happens to be very bright and with an excellent memory for stories her teacher tells) is basically banging her head against a brick wall to learn how to read. She's made a lot of progress, but I feel like there is some block I don't know about.
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dena613
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Thu, Sep 19 2024, 9:58 pm
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She should be evaluated by an experienced kriyah/reading specialist
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amother
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Thu, Sep 19 2024, 9:59 pm
| dena613 wrote: | | She should be evaluated by an experienced kriyah/reading specialist |
That's true, but I don't have money for that, as much as I'd like to.
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amother
Lemon
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 3:08 am
Check her hearing and eyes.
My daughter also has to go through all the aleph Beis to remember what the letter was, a specialist said to focus each week on one letter. Print it big and stick it near the table where they eat, through out the day ask her the letters and point to things which begins with that sound asking her to tell you how it starts.
DD was 5 when they started aleph Beis, it definitely helped doing this. She also did start taking ritalin shortly after and stopped struggling with all her studies so not sure if that also was a factor in helping her.
Does the school not have someone to assess her?
DD teacher did warn me in advance that they were about to start learning tzeirie and she said it's the most common one for the children to fall behind with. She says that's the point they see a lot of girls start struggling and try catch it before they fully fall behind the class.
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amother
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 3:15 am
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The name of the Nekudah is really not important and can confuse a lot of kids please try daled, “eh” , deh as opposed to daled and segel deh it’s way too many steps please shorten they are so little
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amother
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 3:17 am
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And also please get her evaluated even one time so kriah specialist can guide you how to practice with ur daughter so many simple things to do to help but must be done in the right way
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amother
White
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 3:17 am
I would still have her eyes checked out even though you said you don’t think it’s vision.
I just checked out my pre 1a daughter and a muscle behind her one of her eyes is weak.
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Elfrida
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 3:25 am
| amother Lime wrote: | | The name of the Nekudah is really not important and can confuse a lot of kids please try daled, “eh” , deh as opposed to daled and segel deh it’s way too many steps please shorten they are so little |
That was the way I learnt. One line under the letter made this sound. Three little dots made that sound. Etc. After living in Israel for years I apeak and read fluently, and write slightly less fluently, all without nekudot. If I stop to think, I know the names, but it isn't important for functional Hebrew.
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PinkFridge
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 4:20 am
Hugs. Is the kriah teacher affiliated with the school and you have to pay, or is she independent? Is the school giving you any direction at all?
This is why more and more schools have kriah specialists on staff. I hope yours gets one soon and that it's included in tuition/heavily subsidized.
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amother
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 4:21 am
| amother OP wrote: | DD6 is having a very very hard time with reading.
Learning the letters was a big struggle and she still makes some mistakes (pey vs fey).
And os-nekudah she is really having a hard time with. After a lot of effort she learned komatz and patach mostly, tzeirei she sometimes is okay with, segol no matter how many times we review it seems to be hard for her, and although she is getting somewhat familiar with the rest every time it's like she's learning it for the first time.
I can't afford to pay for kriah teacher, but I make time to work with her myself. I've made her worksheets and practice with her regularly but I'm wondering what I'm missing.
It doesn't seem to be (only?) vision-related because even if I tell her the letter and nekudah she is still having a hard time telling me what it says. I hear her sometimes going through the Alef-Beis (segol alef Eh, segol beis Beh) to figure out what a given letter says.
I'd think it might be auditory, because she can't always seem to differentiate the sounds (I'll say Seeeeeeeegol Daled and she'll say Day), but her hearing seems perfectly fine otherwise, and she does a great job rhyming words.
I bought her the Seder Kriah series but it moves too fast through os-nekudah for her. She also didn't find the mouth shapes as helpful/distinct for many of the nekudos.
This is new to me, all of my other kids breezed through kriah without much practice with me. This DD (who happens to be very bright and with an excellent memory for stories her teacher tells) is basically banging her head against a brick wall to learn how to read. She's made a lot of progress, but I feel like there is some block I don't know about. |
Did you get her tested/evaluated? In many places insurance will cover it. My ds has dyslexia and that’s why he struggles with Kria. Once we got the eval we got an IEP and were able to get help for him. (It may be different in your state)
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amother
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 5:23 am
| amother OP wrote: | | That's true, but I don't have money for that, as much as I'd like to. |
I totally understand that.
Having said that, a good evaluation here is the key to your child's future. It's absolutely essential. Can you contact the school, or your Rav, and find out if there is a fund for these things?
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amother
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 5:41 am
IMO the school is supposed to be teaching your child and they should be supporting your dd if she is struggling. If you reach out to the teacher, can they offer any assistance?
I know when my dd started learning she was struggling and then suddenly it seemed to click and then she was fine. But definitely don't say the name of the letter, just focus on the sound it makes. Flashcards are also better as there's only one letter to focus on at a time.
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amother
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 5:55 am
Sorry I can't respond to each post individually.
But basically the school is a little dysfunctional this way. I've always thought they do a bad job teaching kriah, but for most of my kids it made no difference because my older kids learned pretty much on their own with only a drop of coaching from me. This is my first kid who is having challenges, and especially compared to her siblings it's obvious there's an issue.
All the school is offering to do is refer me to a kriah specialist on my dime (we're having a hard time paying for groceries, one of my kids is months behind on needed dental treatment, this really isn't something I can pay for right now). Oh, and tell me to "practice more with her because we are moving on after Yom Tov so she needs to be caught up by then."
At least this year's teacher noticed that she was struggling, last year's teacher didn't even seem to be aware. (I was aware and have been working with her for the past six months or so. That's how she got from knowing about 3 letters to knowing them all, albeit imperfectly.)
I don't believe there is any fund that can help in my area.
As far as English, she has some letter awareness and can point out words that start with the same letters as her or her siblings' names. If Hebrew was a sight-word type of language I honestly think she'd do fine. The school doesn't teach English and I'm not even going to think about it until she gets a handle on the kriah.
I will make her flashcards in the meantime.
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amother
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 5:55 am
| amother White wrote: | I would still have her eyes checked out even though you said you don’t think it’s vision.
I just checked out my pre 1a daughter and a muscle behind her one of her eyes is weak. |
Did you take her to a regular eye doctor or a specialist in some way?
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amother
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 5:57 am
| amother Amaranthus wrote: | | Did you get her tested/evaluated? In many places insurance will cover it. My ds has dyslexia and that’s why he struggles with Kria. Once we got the eval we got an IEP and were able to get help for him. (It may be different in your state) |
Insurance will probably cover an evaluation, but there are no frum specialists where I live (the kriah specialists would be worked with remotely) and I wonder how well it would work in this case. The school doesn't have facilities to work with an IEP so that would be a waste of time, although if they do a good job of clarifying the source of her challenges that would obviously be very beneficial in giving her targeted help.
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amother
Zinnia
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 6:07 am
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Other than a developmental vision exam, which is different from a regular vision exam, the other big factors seemingly at play here are auditory discrimination (not a hearing issue per se, but a processing issue), and phonemic awareness, which is closely related.
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amother
Gold
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 6:22 am
Can she isolate sounds in a word? I think I'd start there. A few times a day, ask her what's the first sound you hear in the word bag/car/table etc. She should be able to respond by giving the sound, without a vowel attachment to the sound, so you want to hear her saying "b" not "buh" and "k" not "kah"
When she's mastered beginning sounds, move on to end sounds. Then you can start asking her to replace sounds. Tell her "Say the word 'pot' instead of 'p' say 'l'" she should be able to tell you the answer is lot.
Kids not being able to do the above is going to make reading a huge struggle. It's always good to make sure the basics are in place.
Of course it's always best to work with a professional. I hope the above is helpful.
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amother
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 6:40 am
| amother Gold wrote: | Can she isolate sounds in a word? I think I'd start there. A few times a day, ask her what's the first sound you hear in the word bag/car/table etc. She should be able to respond by giving the sound, without a vowel attachment to the sound, so you want to hear her saying "b" not "buh" and "k" not "kah"
When she's mastered beginning sounds, move on to end sounds. Then you can start asking her to replace sounds. Tell her "Say the word 'pot' instead of 'p' say 'l'" she should be able to tell you the answer is lot.
Kids not being able to do the above is going to make reading a huge struggle. It's always good to make sure the basics are in place.
Of course it's always best to work with a professional. I hope the above is helpful. |
Thank you! I will definitely do this.
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amother
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Fri, Sep 20 2024, 6:42 am
Also how are her visual discrimination skills? Can she match things? Does she realize a letter is the same even if it's the wrong way, different color or different sizes? There's a whole bunch of pre-skills that a child needs to master before they can learn to read. This gives a basic overview of some of them.
https://www.understood.org/en/.....works
FYI there is approaches to kriah that do sight-reading. Like you would have her name, names of family members and other relevant words that will support her ability to learn to read.
Do you have any family or friends that work with this age group that could offer any tips to help you? Even if they can't assess your dd, it can still be helpful.
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