Action against high rental for RH in Jrslm

yellowroses

Thu, Sep 12 2024, 11:45 pm

lostmyoldSN wrote:

Yup. More or less.

Belz is huge. Is there any way to accomodate more men within the campus? Can they pitch tents? If this is just men going to their Rebbe.

I know that in ger they have that thing that is called stantzye. They will rent empty yeshivas and halls put up a ton of folding beds and give them for a few bucks. The chassidim even get meals and eat together. I think the rebbe personally covers the costs.

↑ ora_43 ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 2:16 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I agree, doesnt the Gemara specifically state that Rabbanim cant limit real estate prices?
I empathize with those wanting rentals close to the Rebbe, but its not a "need".

ETA: So my husband explained that they are not limiting real estate prices, but bed rentals, which is why they specify how many beds.

It's not just that they're limiting bed rental, it's that the pressure is on the tenants, not the landlords.

They aren't saying "nobody is allowed to charge more than X."

They're saying "men in the community shouldn't pay more than X to be near the rebbe this year."

Rebbes issue takanot all the time about things like how much people should be spending on weddings, or whether or not it's appropriate to go to Uman or Meron in certain circumstances. Why not this?

People outside the community are free to do whatever they want. If you're not in Belz or Biala go ahead and charge 10,000 a night for a RH rental if someone's willing to pay.

The fact that it's not a need is precisely their point. They're saying, this isn't worth going broke for, if the rental isn't affordable the rebbe would prefer you stay home.

↑ Ruchi ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 2:18 am

Blessing1 wrote:

I do understand. What I don't understand is making it in to a family trip. What's commonly done is that only the man goes for rosh hashana. Making it in to a family trip for all of tishrei, is a luxury & want. Not something others should bend themselves backwards & lose money on to accommodate.

The Belzer chassidim outside Israel do not go as a family for RH. The men go on their own.

↑ GLUE

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 3:43 am

I don't understand why people are so upset about this

The Rebba said don't pay more then xyz so that means landlords can
a)rent for xyz
b)not rent out there place
c)try to get people who will pay abc

For the people going they have a choice
a)find a place for xyz
b)don't go if they can't find a place

They way some people have been going on and on and on it sounds like the Rebba said landlords must rent for that price and if they don't we will still take over their place.

Are people getting upset because as someone said up-thread people in Israel are not used to the price going down only up. Is that the reason some people are upset about this?

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 3:50 am

ora_43 wrote:

If no one will rent for more than the takana prices, then the landlords will succumb.

If the landlord cant rent out his apartment for more than the takana price, he will settle for the takana price. But it has to be across the board.

Anyone who considers themselves a talmud of the rebbe, should refuse to spend more than the takana and the landlords will have empty apartments.

Of course the landlords will claim, oh I can get more from others who arent being makpid on this ridiculous takana, so ante up or I wont rent to you. And of course thats false, if the LL can get more, he wont talk/return phone call to one who is offering takana prices.

The takana just gives the tenants a way to tell those offering rentals, "Id love to rent your apartment, as a talmud of the Rebbe, I cant give you more than x" and either the landlords will rent it out or not.

What will probably happen is there will be deals on the table and off the table. How will the Rebbe know? Will the Rebbe refuse anyone paying more than the takana, from entering his tish? HIs shule? his block?
Will the Rebbe refuse brachos and sitting with anyone who didnt respect the takana and paid more?

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 4:09 am

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

I am going to say something that might raise some eyebrows:

Giving up your apartment to strangers is a chesed, even if you're making money off of it.
These people should be appreciated.

Absolutely, And babysitting is a chessed , even if you get paid.

You are getting paid for what you do and the chessed is the HOW you do it.

Teaching is a chessed, Selling food is a chessed etc etc etc.

Its not a chessed if you teach and dont make the effort to teach well or treat your students poorly. Its not a chessed if you sell food but do it in a disgusting manner (off the top of my head, you insult the buyers or you dont clean the store and they have to shop in a dirty store etc etc)

But, what does this have to do with the topic of the action against high rental? The Rebbes takana is on the money aspect of it.

The landlords can also rent at the takana price but not provide proper service.

↑ Ruchi

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 4:23 am

I rented summer accommodation in prime Jerusalem area for a really good price. I was surprised that the broker offered us such a price and when I enquired, he said the owner was going away (within Israel) and desperate to make some money. As time was getting closer to their getaway and nobody was taking their apartment, they decided that less money was better than no money at all. He said They reduced the price as an attraction to pull in the first possible potential renter, which happened to be us.

ally ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 4:32 am

ora_43 wrote:

I don't think you're the target audience, then. Even super high airbnb rates aren't "multiple flights abroad" expensive.

If people would need to fly their whole overseas in order to leave for chag, they normally just don't rent out at all. (I can't imagine who would pay that rent, it would be cheaper to stay in almost any hotel.) The people renting out their apartments are Israelis who can go to their parents or siblings for the chag. Or maybe people who were planning to fly abroad either way, and use the rent to help defray the cost of tickets not pay for them completely.

Many years ago we rented out our apartment in central jlem for about 3-4 months rent which paid for a few tickets to the US for Sukkot. I would not do it, if it was not for a significant amount of money and these days with a larger family, not even that. It is a ton of work before and after plus you have people sleeping in your beds, living in your space.
Those of you who think you are entitled to someone's home at a price you decided are entitled and delusional. Im sure the only other place you apply this communist philosophy is to paying your cleaning help.

That said I think that the Rebbe limiting the amount Chassidim should spend to come for RH makes sense. Families should not go into debt for this.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 4:44 am

ally wrote:

Rebbe isnt limiting the amount of Chassidim, just what he thinks they should pay for that privilege.

I agree with not renting out unless it was really worth it. The wear and tear on your home is just not worth it. I know someone who was left with terrible damage and electricity bill. They were never able to get it back.

NO one is saying that they are entitled. They are saying the Rebbe doesnt want rentals for more than his takana, and as a Chassid, I cant pay more.

I am sure there will be many who dont follow the takana, and as you know there is no way to enforce this.

↑ ora_43

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 4:53 am

ally wrote:

Those of you who think you are entitled to someone's home at a price you decided are entitled and delusional.

The only thing people think they are entitled to is to not rent a vacation apartment. I'm not planning to rent a vacation apartment in Neve Yaakov this RH, either. Am I stealing bread from the mouths of poor Jerusalem homeowners?

Quote:

Im sure the only other place you apply this communist philosophy is to paying your cleaning help.

I was just thinking that this thread has been giving "she stole my cleaning help before Pesach, no fair" vibes.

Approaching holiday + important-but-not-really-vital service with limited availability. Is it right, wrong, or morally neutral for rich members of the community to buy at any cost, driving prices up? Is it right, wrong, or morally neutral to force prices down?

IMO, it's morally neutral either way. If rich people want to spend $100/hour to get cleaning help before Pesach, they can do that. OTOH if rich people want to commit not to offer more than twice the going rate, they can do that, too. Nobody is owed cleaning help, and nobody is owed cleaning work. 'Free market' goes both ways.

I admit that when it comes to cleaning help, I find it irritating when people get outraged at those who pay more than, IDK, $16/hour. But that's because (1) they insist on paying a really low rate, (2) to people who could really use the money, (3) and they seem to feel owed cleaning help.

Here, we're talking about people who (1) are willing to pay twice the normal price, (2) to people who own houses in one of the most expensive parts of the country, (3) and are willing to simply go without if that's the alternative.

FTR, chassidic communities do this sort of thing in all areas of life not just RH housing. They have "their" wedding halls that make cheap takana weddings and "their" grocery stores that sell certain items to kollelnikim at cost and they buy apartments as a group.

↑ ally

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 4:56 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I agree with you. I wrote the Rebbe is limiting amount Chassidim can pay - not amount of Chassidim. Maybe not the best wording.

The entitled was referring to other posters who complain about the price of yt rentals in general. Not Belz specifically. There was a whole thread on this last year.

That said, I do feel bad for those who were really relying on this income that suddenly doesn't exist. It must be difficult.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya

Fri, Sep 13 2024, 5:13 am

ally wrote:

You are right.
The income will exist as I doubt LLs will lower their asking price. The problem here is thr renters are chassisim of the Rav, not the LLs.
And a chassis who really wants will pay more. They will find an out as I wrote earlier, under the table.
I'm paying taken for the bed, but extra for x,y,z...