Is it embarrassing not to tip??

amother

↑ Waterlily ↓

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 11:11 pm

Molly Weasley wrote:

You can’t change the world.
As a parent it’s up to you to show appreciation for the people who worked with your daughter. The fact that the camp is shrinking from their obligations doesn’t diminish yours.

Huh? How is it my obligation to make up for the camp's failure? The camp, that mind you, I am paying boatloads of money to, and which I'd expect to pay their staff fairly. No, I don't have to compensate for their failure.

Of course, I want to show my hakaras hatov (and I'd do with $ if I had any left now) but it's not on me to make up for the camp's lack. Just no.

amother

Pear

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 11:18 pm

I unfortunately wasn't able to tip much this year.... But I wrote a beautiful note thanking her, and offered to be a reference for her new daycare she's opening.

I wrote in the note that I wish I was a billionaire so I can tip her 1 million bux, and even that wouldn't adequately show our appreciation. She chuckled and appreciated our gratitude.

This particular morah was awesome for my son. They clicked so well bh, and she was really the best ever. Bh

amother

↑ Waterlily ↓

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 11:20 pm

amother Pear wrote:

That's beautiful, wow.

amother

Peru

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 2:34 am

I put the tips in a sealed envelope and tell my kids that the amount of money inside the envelope is what we as parents can put and not in their hands. But the amount of gratitude they can put into the note they give the counselor/teacher is up to them. They all spend a nice hour thinking about their counselors and the fun they had this summer with them and wrote nice letters.
I personally think that even a small amount is better then an ice coffee or a chocolate. The small amounts add up from all the parents and the counselor is left with something substantial instead of a drippy sugary cup that needs to be drunk on the spot.
There have been years where I had literally nothing to give. In which case there was only a note in that envelope.

amother

↑ Jetblack

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 3:17 am

amother Hunter wrote:

Do you not want to tip or can't afford? Theres a difference.
That being said, it's about thr hakaras hatov. I am a morah in a daycamp. Make a little more than minimum wage (I have a masters degree and over 20 yrs experience). I prefer a gift and less $ and a note than completely not being acknowledged. I work hard. I appreciate the appreciation.
One mother gave an iced coffee (along with nice tip and card) last day of first half. And sorry, I do remember who didnt tip last summer. But not if someone tipped less.

If that's the case, perhaps go get yourself a better paying job. Or ask your employer for a better wage.

What do you want from me as a mother? I already paid an exorbitant fee. This is a private matter between you and your employer. leave me out of it.

amother

Ultramarine

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 3:39 am

amother OP wrote:

I always tipped and lately I just don't want to.
It's not just the $ amount per counselor, madrich, bus driver, bus teacher, etc. Even if I'm not too generous it still adds up to a few hundred per tipping season. And this is after paying for daycamp.

First half I didn't tip but now I'm feeling uncomfortable.
My dd also yelled at me that she's embarrassed not to tip her counselors.
So I guess I just gotta shell out a few hundred dollars now when I have a ton of expenses right now.

So my question is-is it embarrassing not to tip?

No need to tip. I work in a school where we spend a lot more time than a month or two and I never expect a tip. It's very nice to just get an acknowledgement like my kids really loved school (camp in your case Smile

) this year and enjoyed your class etc ...

amother

↑ Mocha

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 3:51 am

amother Wallflower wrote:

When you signed up for the camp, you knew what the system was. You didn't do anything to change the system either. Therefore, you are bound by the implicit contract.

amother

↑ Starflower

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 5:36 am

amother Mocha wrote:

When you signed up for the camp, you knew what the system was. You didn't do anything to change the system either. Therefore, you are bound by the implicit contract.

I disagree. Unless in the contract you signed it explicitly says 'you will pay $3200 to camp, and the specified mandatory tip amount to each specified employee on the list below', it is still only a suggestion that they can't hold parents by. Parents can't help what promises employers made to their employees on their own.

amother

Heather ↓

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 5:50 am

amother Mocha wrote:

When you signed up for the camp, you knew what the system was. You didn't do anything to change the system either. Therefore, you are bound by the implicit contract.

I did so something to change the system. I contacted the camp administration and shared my thoughts on how this setup is inappropriate.

So I guess I'm good to not tip the counselors now.

But you know how else we can change the system. We all simply stop tipping and then the camps will have no choice but to make changes.

↑ notshanarishona

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 5:53 am

amother Mocha wrote:

When you signed up for the camp, you knew what the system was. You didn't do anything to change the system either. Therefore, you are bound by the implicit contract.

Except this is what the system is, camps know good and well that not everyone will tip and they just try their luck so they can make more profits off the expense of the parents and counselors. What needs to happen is girls need to stop agreeing to work unless the salary without tips is worth their time.

amother

Petunia

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 5:58 am

Tip for those with younger kids: make it a point to never let them know or see how much you placed in envelope & always seal shut. When my ( now older) kids ask I tell them it's not their concern, it's the thought that counts. Like this they have no idea if right now you can only send a card or $5, or you sent lots of $$.

↑ Molly Weasley ↓

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 6:06 am

amother Wallflower wrote:

I never implied you should be paying them their full salary!

On the contrary, if money is tight, I recommended giving even the smallest gift with a heartfelt card as the perfect tip.

We're obligated to show appreciation for those who work with our children. The fact that the camp is underpaying them doesn't allow us to skirt our responsibilities.

amother

↑ Heather

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 6:23 am

Molly Weasley wrote:

I think we're overdoing the emphasis on showing appreciation. Of course we are required to show hakaras hatov, but nowhere are there requirements to do it at a specific time and place.

Personally, I think we are using the concept of hakaras hatov as an underhand way to push parents into tipping. I don't need to tip teachers on chanukah or purim to show appreciation. I can simply relate a heartfelt thank you anytime we cross paths or send a thank you message at any time of my choosing. Same goes for counselors. I can swing by the camp during one of my carpool days and just let the counselor know that she's doing a great job and that my kids loves coming every day.

Another thought of mine is that being passively pushed into tipping (money or other) does not speak to hakaras hatov. You are doing it out of obligation - and not out of choice. If you are not doing it by choice, it isn't hakaras hatov. Being forced to do it doesn't translate to appreciation. So not sure how the recipients walk away feeling so very appreciated when people were forced into this. How can you really tell who really appreciated you from those who feel forced to give the tip?

amother

Bronze

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 6:28 am

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

That’s nice. My dd’s main morah (backyard daycamp, married counselor who made it) sent out messages first and second half to make sure to give the counselors something… so felt stupid not giving. Didn’t want to tip her bc I paid so much and didn’t feel like she liked my child, most days she ignored us when I dropped off and picked up. Ended up giving her a small tip bc I felt obligated.

Had the same problem. I couldn't afford to tip so didn't. I'm not sure how to feel.

amother

↑ Babypink

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 6:41 am

Since when is the only way to show hakaras hatov is with money or gifts?
I said thank you several times over the course of the summer. I say thank you all the time to my kids teachers.
But I don't give money typically.
If someone went over and beyond? Yeah, I might give a gift card. I have a kid with some special learning needs so that kids teachers got a small Amazon gift card. But for camp my kid is the same as any average camper and therefore don't need to do "extra".

Tipping is supposed to be for those who go above and beyond. Not mandatory. Once it is listed as mandatory or recommended, the staff expect it and feel slighted if they get less.

(OH and I don't use manicurist or other extras. I don't eat out, I don't use instacart... I can't afford any of that. Camp and school arent luxuries. I have to send to camp or I cannot work to put food on the table. I work 40 hours a week).

amother

Brickred ↓

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 7:11 am

amother Jean wrote:

Yes most ppl tip counselors today they get paid so little. Even $5 is bsomething. If you can’t afford it then send a nice thank you card at least. It can be printed out of the computer.

I used to think everyone tipped, until my daughter got older and admitted to me that the "mandatory" tipping in camp is not so mandatory and not everybody gives. The counselors and waitresses don't even know who gave because they just get one envelope. I spoke to girls in Lakewood and Boro Park daycamps and they say that only about 1/3 of the girls tip and the ones who do tip are not all tipping the "suggested" amount.
The whole tipping culture is out of hand and day camps and camps take advantage. We pay $2,000 for 7 weeks of day camp, take the kids on one less trip and pay the counselors a little more. Also, everyone knows how much they're getting paid before they start working. If you don't like the salary get a different job.

↑ Molly Weasley

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 7:24 am

amother Heather wrote:

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree.

The summer has ended. This is the time to say thanks. If you already did said thanks earlier good for you

True, hakaras hatov is being used to guilt is into giving tips, but so what? It really is hakaras hatov! That's what the word means! Recognizing the good somone did for you is one of the foundations of yiddishkite

Of course camps should be paying them better. And it's not fair to have to pay twice.

But because there's an expectation to tip, not acknowledging the counselor in name of fairness is a kufi tov.

amother

↑ Brickred

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 7:50 am

Molly Weasley wrote:

So now not giving a tip is kafuy tov? How about the head counselor, principal, cashier, barber, street cleaners, construction worker is it kafuy tov when we don't tip them? Counselors have to realize that their agreed upon salary is their salary and if they get tips it's just extra credit so don't rely or take a job based on tips.