Is it embarrassing not to tip??

amother

Hunter

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 6:50 pm

Do you not want to tip or can't afford? Theres a difference.
That being said, it's about thr hakaras hatov. I am a morah in a daycamp. Make a little more than minimum wage (I have a masters degree and over 20 yrs experience). I prefer a gift and less $ and a note than completely not being acknowledged. I work hard. I appreciate the appreciation.
One mother gave an iced coffee (along with nice tip and card) last day of first half. And sorry, I do remember who didnt tip last summer. But not if someone tipped less.

↑ Cheiny

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 6:50 pm

amother Midnight wrote:

Do you tip the manicurist?
The waiter?
The instacart delivery person?
The mover?

Exactly. But it seems when it comes to our teen workers, parents don’t feel the need to treat them properly or show gratitude.

amother

↑ NeonBlue ↓

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 7:02 pm

Every summer people act shocked about tips. Like seriously...you know this going into it. Same like you know you need to tip other service workers. You don't have to tip the full amount but a few dollars is menschlisch. People are working with your children and getting paid minimally because the camp is counting on tips. Weather it's fair or not doesn't matter...that's the way it is. And if you can spend money for a Danish and coffee just give $5 instead with a nice note. Nobody needs 10 danishes but $50 is very appreciated.

↑ GLUE ↓

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 7:07 pm

amother Yolk wrote:

It should be illegal to tip.
I’m one who can afford generous tips and usually do so. I clearly see a difference in how my child gets treated accordingly. It makes me extremely uncomfortable. It should be against the law.

In day camps don't people tip at the end?
How does that effect the way your kid is treated?

amother

↑ Mistyrose

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 7:18 pm

Cheiny wrote:

You’re not paying twice as much, you just give the ones who only work for half the summer half the amount you’d give those who stay for the whole.

But if I was only planning to tip $5 I’m not going to tip $2.50 so I ended up tipping the ones who stayed the whole summer $10 which is really not in my budget

notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 7:45 pm

I don’t think it’s embarrassing not to tip in daycamp (sleep away camp is different culture). That being said, if money isn’t tight I think it’s the right thing to do. I don’t think anyone should tip if it takes food from their kids.

amother

Green

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 7:54 pm

I don't tip and am very embarrassed about it. When I could afford it I used to but unfortunately no longer can. Hope one day to be in the position to be able to tip again!

amother

↑ Starflower ↓

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 8:08 pm

amother Midnight wrote:

Do you tip the manicurist?
The waiter?
The instacart delivery person?
The mover?

I don't get manicures, but back when I did years ago and a manicure at the Chinese nail salon was $7, so I tipped a dollar just so it wouldn't be a chillul Hashem that I did nothing. But if I were going to want to tip anyone it would be my kids' counselors or teachers, people who actually cared for my children and gave of themselves to give the kids an enjoyable year or summer, over an employee who saw me for max half an hour and may never see me again and couldn't care less about me and was merely doing a service they're getting paid to do. If I go out to eat and the waiter spends a max of ten minutes of their time with me- coming to get the initial order, dropping off the food, stopping by the table once or twice to check everything's ok, maybe coming to let me order dessert, and then coming last time to bring me my bill- I actually don't feel like tipping should be a thing. Just like the cashier at a grocery store is paid a salary to ring up my groceries and bag them, the waiter is paid a salary to take my order and bring me my food and the busboy is paid to clean the table and the cook is paid to cook the food. I don't tip the guy behind the counter at the pizza store, and he's working hard too! Tipping became this mandatory thing so that employers don't have to pay their workers a decent salary, that's literally the origins of it, and then it spread to every other place of work.

There should be no such thing as a mandatory or suggested tip. It should be a norm of common decency that after someone really does something wonderful for you, you naturally want to express your gratitude, and sometimes the easiest and most appreciated way is money, but that should be completely up to each person individually, to give what they want to/can afford to, with no 'suggested amounts' and no 'expected amounts', and if they want to express their gratitude some other way, it should be totally up to them and appreciated by the recipient as something the giver did not have to do but clearly wanted to do.

It's like if birthday presents became mandatory, to the point where on your birthday you expect every acquaintance of a certain level to automatically give you a gift, and you start to have tainos when they don't, and complain that you were counting on these gifts to cover certain needs of yours...

An employee should be paid an agreed-upon salary by their employer, and anything other than that should be an unexpected but highly appreciated surprise.

amother

Impatiens ↓

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 8:22 pm

amother NeonBlue wrote:

Hey I don't mind 10 danishes!

amother

↑ Impatiens

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 8:23 pm

As a teen I probably appreciated more the $5. As an adult, definitely the chocolate bar or ice coffee I wouldn't splurge on myself.

amother

↑ Bisque

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 8:57 pm

amother NeonBlue wrote:

A treat costs $5 why don't you just give $5 instead?

I guess you really just don’t understand not having the money. You never should, and everyone on this thread should be blessed with Parnassa as well.

However, you also don’t know me, so you don’t realize how your simple comment can be very hurtful. I am usually the mother who gives tips/ gifts every year. This summer I can’t- it’s the situation I’m in that I must accept.

So just to answer your question… if you really want to know. A treat can be bought on food stamps that right now we rely on. Although of course I hope to be able to get right back off and have have abundance to show appreciation monetarily, as soon as I can.

amother

↑ NeonBlue

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 9:03 pm

amother Bisque wrote:

I apologize I didn't mean to hurt you. May you have an abundance of wealth soon! I didn't realize ppl were buying the treats on food stamps so that makes more sense. I meant if ppl were paying cash it wouldn't make a difference and one shouldn't feel bad tipping small amounts because it adds up.

amother

Peachpuff

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 9:48 pm

Send a Thank You card at a minimum and whatever you can afford. It’s good to teach your children to show appreciation.

amother

Lemonlime

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 9:52 pm

To your question 'Is it embarrassing not to tip?', the answer is maybe yes but it's even more embarrassing to have your card declined at the supermarket. Groceries MUST be paid for, but a tip, not really.

amother

Blue

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 9:57 pm

Where I live they tell you how much to tip each person it's not optional - so I think they may reach out to "remind you" if you don't tip but I'm not sure
I tipped one camp that I was not pleased with because it didn't feel optional to me but BH I could afford it so that big part is different

amother

Yellow

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 10:22 pm

amother OP wrote:

I always tipped and lately I just don't want to.
It's not just the $ amount per counselor, madrich, bus driver, bus teacher, etc. Even if I'm not too generous it still adds up to a few hundred per tipping season. And this is after paying for daycamp.

First half I didn't tip but now I'm feeling uncomfortable.
My dd also yelled at me that she's embarrassed not to tip her counselors.
So I guess I just gotta shell out a few hundred dollars now when I have a ton of expenses right now.

So my question is-is it embarrassing not to tip?

It's really none of her business. Tell her when she starts making money, she can decide where it's allocated. If she has money now and it means that much to her, she can tip with her own money.

amother

Jean

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 10:39 pm

Yes most ppl tip counselors today they get paid so little. Even $5 is something. If you can’t afford it then send a nice thank you card at least. It can be printed out of the computer.

amother

Dandelion

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 10:55 pm

amother Starflower wrote:

But the facts are different. The law in this country is you can pay a worker below minimum wage if they can expect tips. That's how the camps get away with paying their counselors so little. The tips are part of the cost of camp. Even if there's no legal consequence for not paying.

This applies to delivery workers, Uber drivers, and waiters, and camp counselors in most places. (Some people seem to be saying that Lakewood is an exception. In that case this doesn't apply there. Where I live it's definitely the tips that make up the salary.) It would actually not apply most cases to the bus drivers or many of the other staff members.

I would quicker tip the day camp counselors who are counting on the tip as the majority of their salary, then tip the children's teachers where it's just an expression of gratitude.

I'm not judging anyone who can't genuinely afford the tips. Just like I wouldn't judge anyone who doesn't pay something they owe because they simply don't have the money.

But in a culture where the tip is an expectation, not paying it is cheating the person who actually provided the service. You don't have to agree with the culture. You can work to change it, speaking to the camp directors maybe and asking them to change the setup. But to take it out on the teens who did the work is not right or fair.

amother

Goldenrod

Thu, Aug 22 2024, 11:50 pm

Camps are run essentially, by kids. They work hard and are underpaid. Maybe that's not right, and camps should raise salaries and lower suggested tips, but that's not the kids' fault. This year I had 4 working teenagers.

A 13 year old has far less responsibility than an 18 year old. Personally I thought a $5 tip for a 13 year old was fair.

But the 18 year olds are working hard in the heat, chasing after sometimes lots of kids, breaking up fights, making sure no one gets lost, involving them in games, making sure they get lunch. Real adult responsibilities, and their salaries do not reflect that.

They accept the jobs anticipating tips and regardless of how many times I or someone else might try to gently warn them that not all parents will tip, they do mentally account for it.

amother

Lightcyan

Fri, Aug 23 2024, 12:24 am

I have an old question. With the prices we pay for daycamp, why are the counselors getting paid SO little? I think we'd all appreciate if they toned down on the program/swag and what-not so they can pay the counselors better and absolve us of paying tips, when we already pay a fortune for daycamp.