I don't get it; how do people survive?

watergirl

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 10:55 am

amother NeonBlue wrote:

I have a 6,900 mortgage. I am barely surviving and only with a lot of nepotism involved. My house was not expensive. No clue how people are doing it

I don’t know what you consider to be expensive, but $6,900/month Is an exorbitantly, high mortgage, inexpensive houses do not have mortgages like that.

To those who say that they cannot afford to buy, I say this. If homeownership is extremely important to you, and you cannot afford to buy a home where you live, and you need to move to an area that you can afford. Of course, that means you’ll be giving up other things that are also important to you.

There are many many areas outside of the typical three that are extremely affordable and that is discussed on this site often.

amother

↑ NeonGreen

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 10:57 am

amother OP wrote:

I am really not even talking about the families that go on regular extravagant vacations and buy Lululemon for their toddlers.
I'm referring to regular folks whose chol homoed trip is the park or lake. Prizes are from the dollar store, clothing are from target.
Once in a while go out for takeout or ice cream.
Both parents working; one full time one a little less but decent salaries.
I believe that margin is huge and I wonder how they make it?

Yes, despite what imamother portrays, I think for most people clothing and vacations are on the very low end of their expense list. Really not even making a dent. It's the basic day-to-day living expenses that are consuming us with inflation. Housing, electricity, health insurance, tuition, food, diapers. And housing.

My question is why is mortgage big question, it seems comparable to rent these days. How are you getting the $$ for the down payment to begin with?

amother

Forestgreen ↓

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 11:03 am

amother Snapdragon wrote:

I’ve always had this in the back of my mind as an option.

Imagine your children just being accepted to school without you needing to beg school administrators and shake in your pants at interviews where they examine your clothes. Imagine our teachers being hired by the public schools to accommodate the new classes they have to add and actually being paid well with good benefits. Imagine not having to pay tuition! And our children would be more open minded and well rounded.

This might make housing prices go higher in some districts and lower in others based on which public school the brand name families or teachers are at. And obviously antisemitism is a concern, along with assimilation and the school teaching LGBTQ garbage and race theory. But maybe those things are worth it just to make some truly evil school administrators lose their power 🤣

I can't even believe I'm reading such a post here Puke

Open minded and well rounded indeed...

amother

↑ Forestgreen ↓

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 11:04 am

amother Darkblue wrote:

Ouch. This really hurts. This attitude is WHY we are struggling. Yes, our gross sounds high. But let's do some math - about 30% goes to taxes. Ok, you'll say 200k is also a nice income! Not so much if you are being categorized as a high 300k earner. At 150k we were on jerseycare. We received generous child tax credits every year. Tuition was negotiated. Our kids were on the lunch program, seminary was steeply discounted through FAFSA, etc, etc. Maybe I will open a S/O AMA how is it possible to earn 300K, live simply, and have no money. But your judgement really hurts. If only you would see how we live.

Big talkers the people lecturing the middle class when they are on programs and getting big fat tax returns!
They don't realize the amount we pay in taxes and other expenses which they don't have.

amother

Bone

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 11:06 am

watergirl wrote:

We have a 420k mortgage and our mortgage and taxes amount to about 3600. And that is with catching a "lower" rate. It doesn't take a house that is thay much more for the mortgage amount to catch up, especially if u account a higher interest rate and high taxes.

Also, we moved out of NYC because the prices there are insane. However, life is much pricier in different ways out of town, and a lot of unexpected expenses have jumped out on us. (Tuition, school transportation, food, we really need a second car here, health insurance income cap is higher in nyc etc)
Also, a very major point is that with the lower expenses that comes woth moving out of town, it almost always comes with lower salaries.

amother

Dimgray ↓

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 11:14 am

amother Steelblue wrote:

In the last few years our expenses have completely spiraled. No, we are not making it, but luckily we have some savings. We have been pulling from savings every month while we scramble to set up additional sources of income (with Hashem's help). It's really mind boggling.

My turn to rant. It infuriates me how people who don't work in EY come here and get supported by these rich gvirim while tons of families who work are struggling to make ends meet. Somehow we are second class citizens because we are responsible. Let the gvirim support us first before so called gedolim come here to raise millions off our backs.

amother

↑ Darkblue

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 11:18 am

amother Forestgreen wrote:

Big talkers the people lecturing the middle class when they are on programs and getting big fat tax returns!
They don't realize the amount we pay in taxes and other expenses which they don't have.

This.
It was so hard to see that the more money we made, the more expenses we had. No matter how hard we work to make more, it somehow makes no difference.
Sometimes I felt like dropping it all and going back on programs, until I realized we had one huge advantage. We are makpid about separating maaser, so the more we earn, the more tzedakah we get to give!

amother

NeonPink ↓

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 11:25 am

amother Dimgray wrote:

Not “so called gedolim”. They are gedolim!

There is an infinite amount of money in the world and more being printed every day. Hashem has enough for you, for me and for all the kollel families in EY as well. The only question is how to access the money. Bashing gedolim is not the answer!

amother

Clover

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 11:33 am

amother Yellow wrote:

Since you asked - start of rant:

This high standard of living has got to go. Lower the scale of all simchas. Stop with the extravagant gift giving during engagement. Stop the crazy furnishing expenses for chosson kallah. Dressing tznius doesn't mean expensive or brand name clothing. Schools should stop with the costly extra curricular and excess activities. Same goes for camp. Camp should be optional, not something everyone does. Figure out how to celebrate YT without it costing thousands of dollars. Etc.

Then - prepare out kids appropriately for a financial future. The financial tools we currently give them is as if it's still then 1970s. No, you can't anymore easily pick up the lacking skills and jump right into well paying jobs whenever you so decide to. Nor are we living in an era where 2 weeks of works pays your life expenses, so we lost the bandwidth where people have some space to build themselves up. Nor is it feasible for people to go into marriage, without any financial education, and just figure it out later. By the time they figure it out, their expenses are debilitating and they are paying their life backwards instead of forward.

I can go on and on about how what we define now as 'basics' is in reality a wealthy lifestyle anywhere else in the world. You can't sustain a lifestyle where you expect the average family to be among society's top earners, while at the same time limiting their tools to be able to target high paying jobs.

(Please spare me the personal anecdotes how our current setup makes sense just because you know a few people who have made it despite the obstacles. For every one person who made it, I can bring at least 20 who didn't. Society should be geared for the average person to make it, and not just for a small minority.)

End of rant.

Didn't read the entire thread. I agree with all of the above. Unfortunately I think that only a World War will be able to force a big reset. I hope I'm wrong.

amother

Melon ↓

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 1:04 pm

amother OP wrote:

This is us. We're not making it. And all around us are people going to the country for THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. I stayed stuck in stinky old Brooklyn. Kids keep asking how come everyone else goes. Yes most of my relatives and neighbors went.
It's HARD

amother

Catmint

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 1:12 pm

amother Yellow wrote:

What I’m discovering is that tuition is brutal. We haven’t been in debt over nearly 20 years of marriage, don’t buy things we can’t afford. Don’t need to list everything out but to give an example I have bought my 9 year old dd one dress in her entire life. Everything else has been hand me downs except undergarments. We cater our own simchas and really don’t care about keeping up with the Kleins. We’re really struggling right now though with multiple yeshiva tuitions to pay and since our salary isn’t increasing, it seems like a rut we’re going to be in for the foreseeable future. BH because of our general outlook on life we don’t feel destitute although we’ve taken on more work hours and cut back even more. But, I’m still seeing how even being extremely fiscally responsible won’t cut it through all life’s circumstances. I’m sure it could have been much worse now if we had been living the high life for years.

amother

Vanilla

Wed, Aug 21 2024, 1:21 pm

amother Yellow wrote:

Fact is, that middle class income of 150k elsewhere in society generally has the means to make it. So this is mostly limited to our community.

So why is that our community can't? Part of that answer is housing. Why are we continuously crowding in communities to the degree that the housing costs are ridiculously high? Why don't we incorporate the mindset to gradually move outwards to keep costs at bay?

Tuition is something that our communities need to figure out. Private schools is a luxury elsewhere. We obviously need them. But to expect the average family to pay the exorbitant expenses is unrealistic. We need to figure out how to keep costs at bay.

What you’re saying made sense 5 years ago. Nowadays with inflation and the housing prices+ rates this isn’t just a frum problem.

I bough a house 20 min drive from the main area. 5 years ago houses here were 400k, ours costed closer to 1mill. With an interest rate that kills us. Bh we can manage it because our family is young but we are praying to refinance and hopefully continue to grow our income before we have multiple tuitions.