This weeks double take - cousins club

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 8:20 am

amother Iris wrote:

Has it struck anyone that Liba is probably dealing with secondary infertility, and being around all those little children and babies might have made things even harder for her?

Yes. We noticed the ages, but since it wasnt in her narrative, there is nothing to discuss. It doesnt really change the fact that her husband told her he was around, then didnt deal with the kids. It doesnt change the fact that the rules in her house are more relaxed (such as ball playing in the house, something I never allowed for obvious reasons) and in the rental, one cant behave that way.
It doesnt change the fact that her son caused his little cousin to fall down the stairs and she pooh poohed it as normal.
As with all double takes, there are perspectives that dont get shared like why her husband hid in the patio and avoided the balagan. Why didnt he take advantage of the time to be with his boys and nieces.

Yes, I am sure she is dealing with a lot. But who isnt.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 8:29 am

Chayalle wrote:

It doesn't say so in the story. So no reason to assume that.
I always figure a writer puts in the amount of characters in the story that she wants to spend time describing and dealing with. More children would've complicated the story line, so Liba only has two.

I finally read the story last night, and I felt it was well-balanced in the presentation. Some of the sisters ARE a bit overprotective. Liba is a bit more permissive (allowing a ball around mealtime) but at the same time, she IS the one who helped her mother while they all got comfortably settled, and then she gets no break. And she does go take a nap because her husband is in charge...perhaps if some of the other BIL's had followed his example, he would've been more comfortable hanging out where the kids were.

Everyone's pardon if someone already mentioned this.

Sorry, I disagree.
He needs to feel comfortable being where his sons need him, or bringing his sons to the patio with him. Or take them somewhere safe to keep them busy while their mother rests. I dont buy the excuse that he was on the patio because he felt uncomfortable near his SIL's , he wanted to bury himself in his learning which has its time and place. His place was watching his rowdy (healthy) boys...

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 8:37 am

I dont remember a Double Take where the two sides are not so even. Usually I can understand both sides, here its clearly Liba (and Dovids) fault.
Maybe the Double Take where the family getting a lot of tzedaka from the community, splurges on a luxury trip with their inheritance...

rmbg

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 8:39 am

If you know your kids are going to struggle in the environment youre bringing them to, you need to be proactive! You can’t expect everyone else to work around them. You need to change your mindset that youre not on vacation, you need to fully supervise your children. Is it it a fun reality? No. But youre the parents.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 8:39 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I agree the husband needs to be present if he's in charge.
I have had situations where husbands seem to assume that the women will take care of their kids for them without even asking if that works...... It has definitely bothered me.

sequoia

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 8:42 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

The one where a girl didn’t get accepted to seminary because once, in ninth grade, she hung out at a pizza shop or something. There wasn’t much sympathy for her principal.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 8:42 am

Chayalle wrote:

Seem to assume....lady they snowed you!

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 8:47 am

sequoia wrote:

The one where a girl didn’t get accepted to seminary because once, in ninth grade, she hung out at a pizza shop or something. There wasn’t much sympathy for her principal.

Agree, although, it was the teacher, not the Principal who was the "tattle-taler". IMHO, She was wrong, but she did have the excuse of taking the painfully honest route. She was not bound by doctor/therapist- patient privilege (parents first mistake) , she felt her allegiance was to the school and not the girl. At the very least, she should have given the eval over to another teacher.

↑ ittsamother ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 8:50 am

rmbg wrote:

Like they say, "Parents don't really go on vacation. They just take care of their kids in a different location."

↑ ittsamother ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 8:51 am

sequoia wrote:

The one where a girl didn’t get accepted to seminary because once, in ninth grade, she hung out at a pizza shop or something. There wasn’t much sympathy for her principal.

I thought it was because she had hung out with the "bad crowd" and still interacted with them? Over a one time pizza store visit.

amother

↑ Marigold ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 9:10 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Please don't make up things that doesn't exist in the story.

She is not making a single thing up.

Fact: Her youngest is 8.

Fact: She clearly belongs to a community in which two children is considered an anomaly and is almost always attributed to IF issues (or late marriage).

Yes, we can therefore infer that she has SIF. You can argue that maybe she has another major reason to be on long-term BC, but any of those would be a similarly significant challenge with the same end result being that being around these young, growing families can be very painful for her.

↑ ittsamother ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 9:34 am

amother Marigold wrote:

Or maybe two kids is all she wanted?? Just cuz in her community it's the norm to have more doesn't mean she personally wanted more! And nowhere in the story did the author give one hint of her internal longing for more or anything like that. Maybe she had these two, was overwhelmed, and was like actually this is all the amount of stress I want in my life, I'll just focus on these two. (She doesn't sound the type to be looking for more hard work, given how little she wanted to do the hard work involved in actively taking care of the two she has.)

I know how many I personally want, and I couldn't care less if everyone around me has double that, I wouldn't want that amount and that's that.

amother

↑ Purple ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 9:53 am

ittsamother wrote:

I did think I picked up a couple of subtle hints that it was not by choice but I may just have been projecting

amother

Birch ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 10:20 am

Here's the triple take:
Hi, I'm Dovid. I'm generally a good husband and dad but also slightly-clueless-and-can-get-easily-lost-in-my-sefer-type. At home on Shabbos afternoons, I usually watch the boys so Leba can get a break. I sit on the front lawn with my sefer, and they have a great game of rough-and-tumble with the six other boys on the cul-de-sac their age. If they need me, I'm there! I had no idea what was happening in the basement!! Now that I've read all sides I suppose they needed more hands-on parenting this week but I was tooootally unaware...

amother

↑ Birch

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 10:24 am

Of course, even if this was his perspective, Dovid was also irresponsible. I'm in camp everybody could have handled this situation alot better with a little foresight, planning, and stepping up to the plate.

amother

↑ Marigold ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 10:33 am

ittsamother wrote:

Sorry, but this doesn't fly. In this community, stopping after two boys without a very good reason (which again, whether that's major SB problems, mental illness etc would be a source of pain for her) is not halachically sanctioned as the man has not properly fulfilled his obligation of peru u'revu.

amother

↑ Poinsettia ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 10:35 am

Reading it again I notice:
1. At the very top, before the story really even starts, it classes this family get-together as a get-together to watch little princesses play, meant to let the moms of the 0-5yos enjoy each others' company and shep nachas.
2. Liba comforts the little girl who her son knocked down. The mother wasn't the one offering comfort, she came in only after the fact. It's just not good enough for the princess' mother.
3. It's not like Liba didn't work hard to keep her kids entertained. She did. She didn't do it every single minute of the day, but she did sit down and play with them, try to keep them busy, while her sisters and sils hung out and chatted and read magazines she was "on call." It just wasn't enough for her siblings and she wasn't up to doing it 24 hours a day for the entire long weekend, plus helping out.

amother

↑ Cognac ↓

Mon, Aug 19 2024, 10:36 am

Can everyone please stop getting sidetracked with Liba's supposed SIF?
This is a fictional story and this is not part of the story.
And even if she is suffering from SIF still gives her no right to let her kids free reign like that.