Tisha beav camp price gouging

ora_43 ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:12 am

I think helping parents on fast days is a big and important chessed. But the fact that it's a chessed doesn't mean it's wrong to charge.

Doing makeup for free for poor kallahs is an amazing chessed; that doesn't mean a makeup artist who charges high prices is a jerk. Sending food to women who just gave birth is a chessed, but there's nothing wrong with restaurants charging money, even of women who just gave birth.

The problem isn't that there are kids charging money, it's that there's no help for people without money.

↑ watergirl ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:12 am

notshanarishona wrote:

but it’s sad that 9 av of all days has become all about making and can’t even mix a little bit of chessed or trying to make it affordable for everyone.
.

I love reading your posts, so I hope you understand I am not attacking you.

I am someone who cant afford these extras. I get it - it's an extra.

There is so much that I can't afford. We are not a communist society and the thing is, since when do things have to be affordable for everyone? Where does this concept come from? My kids don't go to overnight camp, I can't afford it. They go to whichever camp myself or my husband work at because it's free.

Tisha BAv camp is not a right, it's not a must. It's a nice thing for your kid to do for a few hours.

Again, if someone needs a chessed, the thing to do (and there is still time) is approach your shul and ask them to form something at reduced price.

You know what I did when I had little kids on 9Av and YK? I got together with my neighbors and we did a round-robin playdate. Each mom had one hour to host a play date.

Then I moved to a place without other little kids on my block, and before 9Av, we let the kids watch way too much screen. It's a day. They will be fine.

This is not my right to have this luxury and it's certainly not my right to expect chessed on someone else's cheshbon.

↑ Trademark ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:13 am

amother Amaranthus wrote:

It wasn’t one mother. It was many. Until I put my foot down and told her to set boundaries and rules. Apparently many mothers thought teens are there to slave away and serve them while they party and shirk their duties. I’m actually finding the 20-29 year olds very entitled and self centered. Each time I say maybe it was a one off, but then another one comes along. I am starting to think they aren’t good examples for my kids and maybe I should rethink who they work for or help.

I don't where you are, but in my circles young mothers are not partying and shirking their duties while they have preteens slaving for them.

Most mothers with a few little ones work hard and are harried.

They might call a babysitter occasionally so they can go out and have a break. And they treat them decently.

amother

Forsythia ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:13 am

Trademark wrote:

Let's imagine a scenario where an 11 year old charges half price mentioned in the op $30.

She takes four kids for four hours. $120.

Let's say $40 covers supplies and food for four toddlers.

She stays with $80 $20/hr.

If you think that's being taken advantage for an 11 year old, I don't know what to say.

Agreed.
An eleven year to make $20 an hour????

A hs girl babysitting doesn’t make that much!

amother

↑ Lightpink ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:14 am

watergirl wrote:

100%. Well said.

amother

↑ SandyBrown ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:14 am

amother Amaranthus wrote:

That’s not a real question. Each situation has its own evaluations. You demanding a chessed doesn’t mean anyone owes it to you. You can post on your chats looking for a girl to watch my kids for free while I fast. Maybe someone is looking to help. The entitlement of demanding chessed is disturbing to be honest.

Why I'm actually curious? I'm not demanding cheseed im.actuakly asking what u consider chesed

I don't need someone to watch kids for free
Im Specifically responding to the ad that young girls watching kids for 80$ for 3 hours

Not sure why it's entitlement
Like I wrote in other post I think this is a very American in town thing? I don't know

I'm not American and not I'm town...

↑ ora_43 ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:15 am

I'm not saying nobody is price gouging.

But OTOH, the 'it's Tisha beav and people are suffering from the fast' argument goes both ways. As a mother, if I'm asking for babysitting on Tisha beav, when the babysitter is exhausted and suffering and just wants to rest, shouldn't I be willing to pay extra?

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:17 am

watergirl wrote:

It’s ok, I don’t take it personal.
Again it’s not about me and that I am a terrible faster and that I only function on Tisha Beav / Yom Kippur if lying on the coach all day and my husband ends up staying at home .( Anyway it happens to this year I am not fasting because just getting over a bad case of pneumonia/ being hospitalized. )
I just think the price rates for these camps has gotten way way out of hand and turned 100% into a money maker and losing the spirit of the day.
There should be some middle of the road between chesed and over charging.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:18 am

ora_43 wrote:

For the most part, the kid’s running these camps are doing it the year before they have to fast. My daughter is going into 6th and almost all of her friends are running camps / not fasting.
Charging extra for a hard day is understandable/ but when it gets to 5x the normal rate just seems out of hand.

amother

↑ SandyBrown ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:19 am

watergirl wrote:

You think it's ok to charge 80$ for 3 hours for an 11 yo to watch your little. Kid?

amother

Mistyrose ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:22 am

amother SandyBrown wrote:

My 11 year old daughter and her 3 friends watch 7 kids for free on t av they have a cute camp and everyone has a great
Time!
They wouldn't dream to charge!!

Maybe this whole thing is a in town thing -I live OOT .
I would love tohear if that imamother who says her daughters do chesed I'm really curious what' she considers chesed?

I live OOT and the advertised camps are paid. Maybe there are small ones that are not advertised, where a few girls pool their siblings or something for free, I dunno.

Is it so hard to imagine other forms of chessed besides daycare?

For example, I do the following as chessed:
- give advice in my area of professional expertise
- teach kids
- give blood
- make meals
- other random stuff occasionally: give ride, watch someone's kid for a bit, lend stuff

What I never ever do as chessed: babysit a big group of other people's toddlers or preschoolers for hours. If someone wanted this particular service from me, I would just say no, no matter what the pay, because I am BH well off. But if I was not well off, I would definitely charge what I thought my time was worth. I would make an exception in a very exceptional situation of extreme need, but not just for your basic mom who doesn't want to watch her own kids.

amother

↑ Lightpink ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:23 am

amother SandyBrown wrote:

You think it's ok to charge 80$ for 3 hours for an 11 yo to watch your little. Kid?

Noone is forcing you to send so if you think it's too much don't send. I think it's crazy to pay what people pay for kids clothing or going out to eat so I don't do it. If you can't afford it figure out other arrangements. Have your husband help you. Hire someone cheaper. Find a chesed girl. Ask your rabbi for a heter.

↑ watergirl ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:25 am

notshanarishona wrote:

Refuah shlemah!!

My question is, why does chessed have to come in here at all?

Entrepreneurship is someone seeing a need and meeting it while making money.

These kids are young entrepreneurs. They see a need and a way to fill it and make money. It's not about chessed. If a chessed org wants to open a camp on 9Av, great! THEN it's about chessed!

As an aside, I would love to see a venn diagram of the kids who open these camps contrasting with kids who have to pay for their own stuff/extras (aside from clothing etc) vs. the kids who get the extras they want. My kids save up their birthday and chanukah gelt and buy extras, they have friends who get the extras as the gift itself. My son saved money to buy a Nintendo Switch, he has many friends who got one stam. That kind of thing.

I would hazard a guess that the kids who are trying to make money are not the ones who's parents will buy them the trendy and expensive hoodie that they really don't need, or the cute tote bag, or the older girl who wants the fancy watch, etc.

In other words, these are hard working kids!

↑ ora_43 ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:26 am

notshanarishona wrote:

Fair. I was thinking more of teenagers, and those 11-year-olds who do fast (where I live many kids do fast at least until midday at age 11).

I do think parents should discourage kids from charging super-high prices.

At the same time, there are a lot of parents who have no problem at all paying super low prices, without doing the calculation of whether or not the 11-year-old babysitter is going to come away with any money at all after paying for activities and snacks. And I'm guessing that big picture, that's a more common issue.

↑ watergirl ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:31 am

amother SandyBrown wrote:

You think it's ok to charge 80$ for 3 hours for an 11 yo to watch your little. Kid?

I can't pay that, so I don't send. That's the end. I also would not in any world send my little kid to an 11 year old, so I guess that's the second end.

If someone can afford it and wants to pay it, then of course I think it's ok.

I can't believe I'm even going to say this next part.

But this thread reminds me of the threads complaining about cleaning ladies charging a ton. People suggested banding together as a community and refusing to pay their high prices in hopes that they will in effect force the cleaning ladies to accept lower prices. It did not work.

If we will pay a cleaning lady $25/hour or more to clean a toilet, (which they say they do on this site all the time!) even more so should we be happy to pay a Jewish kid the money to keep our kids in kosher entertainment for a few hours.

(FWIW I can't afford a cleaning lady either, so I don't have one - I don't get upset that I can't afford one and expect people to do it at a lower price for me.)

[ETA - it's never one 11 year old, it's always at least two - so they are splitting it. It's not paying ONE 11 year old $80 for three hours, it's actually paying two 11 year olds $40 each. Carry on...]

amother

↑ SandyBrown ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 10:39 am

watergirl wrote:

Did you read the whole thread
I think you're missing the point entirely