Tisha beav camp price gouging

amother

↑ Amaranthus ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:48 am

amother SandyBrown wrote:

I don't agree
Its tisha beav
We're a nation we're all in this together

For 1 day can we help each other out for an affordableprice?
Women who are preg postpartum women struggling with shalom basis that spouse won't help??

But why is it a kid’s job to help with your marriage issues? You need to go to a rav or marriage counselor and force your husband to help.

amother

↑ Coffee

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:48 am

amother Jade wrote:

My 11 year old on Lakewood is doing it for $15/kid with a friend. 1:30-5. She will be fasting. But it’s only 3.5 hours, they will have at least 10-12 kids, and they’re each walking out with at least $65. That’s plenty of money for a kid to make in 3.5 hours.
I agree that the $50 price seems excessive. Even if they work hard since when does babysitting or even being a counselor earn over $100/hour?

Makes sense. Could be the expectations if parents regarding food & crafts are different? Less kids?

I can't imagine $25 or so not being sufficient.

amother

Rainbow ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:49 am

I have two year old twins and no, just no, I'm not sending them to Tisha B'av camp. Yes, it's going to be hard, but I don't understand this whole camp business. I'll go to amazing savings and get a bunch of activities. And I will survive the day. I would never ever ever ever trust an 11 year old to watching my kids!!!

amother

↑ OP

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:49 am

Yes it’s a luxury and they don’t owe anything but there is a fine line between making something worth your time and charging every penny you can charge.
There are very few girls in the age range of old enough to start babysitting but not fasting.
Personally I am not able to fast if I am running around all day after my kids. I always end up sick or fainting by doing so.
So either I end up breaking my fast early on, or my husband stays home all day and can’t even go daven.
Why can’t there be room for compassion snd trying to help others(especially on T av)? Is this really the time for selfish trying to make a mint.

amother

↑ Foxglove ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:50 am

Side note. Its great to do a chessed for others and important to instill this middah in our children. (Within reason dont turn your children into shmatas) that being said its a whole other thing to demand chessed from others and expect everyone to step in and take care of your every need. This sense of entitlement on this thread (and seeped in many others) is unbelievable.

amother

Waterlily

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:51 am

amother Whitesmoke wrote:

I think the problem is that we are monetizing everything.

When did chessed stop becoming a thing? Why does everything have a price tag? And why are we encouraging our young young preteens to charge?

As I wrote upthread, when I was a kid I did this for free. I took the little kids in the neighborhood, took them to the park for an hour, read them some stories, maybe we colored a little, everyone ate snacks or sandwiches they brought from home.

It wasn't a whole "program", there weren't fancy supplies and projects or overhead. It was simply giving the fasting adults a break.

And it was common in my neighborhood that every year the 10/11 year Olds would do this.

How did we get from there, to fancy programs run by teens/adults with high hourly rates? Why should anyone lose money over something that shouldn't be costing money?

Kids aren't like that these days. They need incentive.

I think the way things were in the 80s and 90s was too extreme and kids were really taken advantage of. Now we are in the opposite extreme where no one does chessed freely anymore and everything needs to be paid for and paid well. Hopefully we will get back to some sort of middle ground where kids will be open to helping and adults will not take advantage of kids because they can.

amother

↑ Amaranthus ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:52 am

amother OP wrote:

We don’t get to demand chessed. You don’t know how much of their day/week is devoted to chessed. This specific thing they are not doing in the way you want. It is a chessed if they are fasting even if they are charging but that’s another story. What they are doing is not wrong. Sorry you can’t find any in your price range. Keep looking I’m sure it exists somewhere.

↑ ShishKabob

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:52 am

amother OP wrote:

I'm sure you are not begrudging them from making any money. It's just that it's too much for you to shell out that's making this so painful.
Can you ask them if they can give you a price break? Can you make an offer of what's acceptable to you?

watergirl ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:54 am

amother SandyBrown wrote:

With all due respect, you really can't emotionally manipulate a bunch of pre-bas mitzvah girls this way. This is not moms helping moms, it's kids trying to make money. If you need a chessed, ask for a chessed, but without using "we are a nation and we are in this together". When people do that on my local chat as a way to ask for chessed, it has the far opposite effect; people feel extorted and it's a bad feeling.

If you need chessed, ask for it from the people who are in a place to give it.

As a side note, I'm not sure it's a great idea to send little kids to an 11 year old or two 11 year olds. They are far in over their heads.

amother

Grape

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:55 am

I’m paying $45 for 5 hours including food. I don’t consider it overpriced. The person in charge is a responsible 12th grader she keeps the kids entertained in age appropriate ways not just putting on a video. She pays assistant counselors, buys some supplies but it’s not an over the top program just cute craft type of things and I’m more than happy for her walk away with a profit doing something I don’t want to do.
These girls would not otherwise be volunteering or working for a few dollars, they’d stay home and lie on the couch like all my friends did when we were kids. There was no expectation that we should help anyone other than our mothers while fasting.

amother

↑ Rainbow

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:55 am

amother OP wrote:

I end up sick after fasting too. And I still don't send to Tisha B'av camp. I'd rather feel ill fasting and know my kids are safe than being taken care of by some strange 11 year old or even in better case scenario some strange lady they've never seen before. Yes, it's hard but knowing myself I would not be able to rest or feel good if they were in a confusing strange environment. You and your husband will have to take turns.

notshanarishona ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:55 am

amother Firethorn wrote:

Expecting girls to create an entire camp on Tisha Baav for free or close to it isn’t reasonable….
Remember , these 11 year old girls likely either have younger siblings , and their mother could use help, or they have nieces and nephews they could help with. I have had people ask me if my preteen could help them, could work at their camp (for like $1/hour), could be a mothers helper etc… I get it! But she is very helpful with my little kids, and when I feel she’s helped “enough” (not to turn her into a shmata or to parentify her), I want her to relax, not to go do another job for a negligible amount of money.

Working for $5-10 an hour is not free or even close to free. That’s a lot for a 10-12 year old. I don’t think it should be free but there is a wide range between I am making money and these parents are desperate to get their kids entertained, let me charge 5x my usual rate.

asmileaday ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:56 am

Years ago we did many things for free that wouldn't fly with today's kids.

Not all of it is bad.

I've gotten quite a few ads for tisha bav daycamp ranging from $50-75 for about 5 hours.
I'm just not gonna send.
I used a quarter of that amount to buy tons of cheap crafts and I'm hoping for the best.

You can teach your own kids to do more chessed or charge less.
You don't get to expect others do things for you for free or cheap.

↑ asmileaday

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 11:58 am

Trademark wrote:

Both can be right at the same time.

They don't owe anything.

Also, why are mothers teaching their 11 year old's to have such hasuges? Doesn't seem like good chinuch to me.

These 11 year old are probably buying $15 milkshakes when studying with friends so $5 is pennies to them LOL

amother

↑ Firethorn

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 12:00 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

$5 an hour, for us, meant we lost money after supplies and food.
It’s below free. $10/hr would probably about break even. A 12 year old is fasting just like you and me. To have them watching a bunch of toddlers and come away with $30 while fasting is taking advantage. Like PP said if someone needs chesed thars understandable they should find someone in a position to give. Not expect neighborhood preteens to provide it.

One idea is to share with a neighbor , I take your kids for two hours then you take mine- then each mother gets two hours to rest.

↑ Trademark ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 12:01 pm

asmileaday wrote:

These 11 year old are probably buying $15 milkshakes when studying with friends so $5 is pennies to them LOL

Then they shouldn't be surprised they grow up to be entitled brats with unreasonable expectations.

or maybe the mothers are already like that...

amother

↑ Amaranthus ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 12:02 pm

Trademark wrote:

Then they shouldn't be surprised they grow up to be entitled brats with unreasonable expectations.

or maybe the mothers are already like that...

I don’t think that’s fair. Prices of food and things today are not close to what they were in the 80s. You can’t do much with $5. Money has a whole different meaning now and it’s not the kids fault.

↑ Trademark ↓

Thu, Aug 08 2024, 12:05 pm

amother Amaranthus wrote:

There is a big difference between $5 and $60.