Rabbi Mendel Kessin- predicting techiyas hamesisim

↑ b.chadash ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 7:53 am

amother Babypink wrote:

OP I didn't read through all the comments. If Rav Kessin Predicts Techiyas Hameisim in 2030 does this mean we will have this war until then?

No one knows for sure.

Here's what many are saying:
All the signs are pointing in the right direction. Many events are very sped up- which is a theme Rabbi Kessin brings up often, meaning that the window is closing. And all events have to happen before the deadline. This is why things seem to be happening very fast.

That being said, the idea that Moshiach has to come by the year 6000 is based on a passuk that each day is a thousand years. Belief in this, however, is NOT one of the 13 ikrim. It's something that many chachamim point to, but it's not a certainty.
If Moshiach c"v does not come by 2030, or by 6000, it does not mean that he isn't coming, it just means that this calculation was incorrect. The Torah never specified an end point.

↑ b.chadash ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:03 am

Trademark wrote:

What is this supposed to mean? We are not a year 5784?

Exactly.

Eta. I don't know very much about the subject. In fact, just on Shabbos we had a conversation about this at the table and I realized I want to learn more about it. But this is something that I heard many years ago.
Eta again. This seems to be a controversy, with great people on both sides of the debate. Some who say that the date is accurate and others who say we are off by about 168 years.

Last edited by b.chadash on Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:33 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ ShishKabob

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:10 am

b.chadash wrote:

I love the way you explain things, especially the part that it's not one of the 13 ikr I'm which is really an important point to make.
We are in Moshiachs times. You have to be blind not to see that the world is shaking up and down. If we take the opportunity to do tshuva then this knowledge has a reason.

PinkFridge ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:45 am

amother OP wrote:

So how do I reconcile this with the fact that he is a tremendous Talmid Chacham and a tzadik.

That there are many other talmidei chachamim and tzadikim who aren't discussing this.
I assume that there are other areas he discusses that resonate for you and that's why you listen to him?

amother

Nectarine ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:45 am

amother Daisy wrote:

I’m confused.

Isn’t moshiach going to come based on our good deeds?

בעיתו אכאישנה
If they deserve it then achishena, I will hurry it up. If not, then be’ito in its right time, which many say is by the year 6000

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:46 am

b.chadash wrote:

Hi.
I have been listening to Rabbi Kessin's shiurim since 2015 or so.
He doesn't "predict".
His calculations are based on the Zohar and the Ramchal and numerous other sources.

His angle is that he tries to explain current events through the lens of Chazal.
Of course, there is some element of interpretation.

To answer your question, most would agree with you, that it's not for us to predict and calculate. Many rabbonim stay away from that. As the saying goes, "those who know, don't say. Those who say- don't know." However I have heard people say that that would only apply when it's "achishena" (before the end time).
When it's b'ito, it's not predicting, but just obvious. (I'm not sure I expressed that right, but if you listen to Rabbi Isser Weisberg, he addresses this.)

I listen to Rabbi Kessin not for the predictions but for his penetrating insights. He does bring sources for everything he says, but obviously, the current events are his own understanding on how to apply the gemaras and Chazals he quotes.

All of his shiurim are built on the same basic premises and all fit together. He sees all current events as bringing forward the Messianic process that has to happen for the world to achieve the end goal.

Hm. B. chadash, I take what you have to say very seriously.
I do want to caution that, yes, we are living in momentous times, but just maybe we need to keep some small feelings of "things might not happen SO soon" and we have to live lives that don't feel like limbo till then.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:47 am

b.chadash wrote:

Just wondering how you know he is a tzadik? I'm not saying he is not, but I'm not sure how you can know this. He isn't a well known "gadol".
I do not know him personally, though I have been listening to his shiurim for years.
He is certainly a brilliant scholar (and I believe a psychologist) and has been giving shiurim for at least 20 years.
Many of his shiurim can be heard on Torah Anytime.

You can easily hear all this from him firsthand. In his latest shiur, he mentioned about techias hameisim occurring before the year 2030, within the first 5 minutes.

Eta. My point is not to mitigate anything he says. But keep in mind that he is one Rabbi who speaks up about this, and it's not something we need to take as Toras Moshe MiSinai. Maybe he know, but maybe he is mistaken. Many great gedolim have made predictions that have not come to pass.
I like to keep an open mind.
It's valuable to listen to his classes to gain a broader understanding of Jewish history and how things fit into the broader scheme of things. I don't think it should be about the predictions.

Because liking's not enough.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:49 am

Thisisnotmyreal wrote:

Yes there is Rambam in Igeres Taimon predicts nevuah to return about a thousand years ago and Reb Chaim Vital describes the Arizal as someone who has nevuah. And many more Tzaddikim have had since then.

Many nevuah? Not "just" ruach hakodesh?

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:51 am

amother OP wrote:

I’ve heard once that the person who was the best of all the ones who shared the same neshama will be the one to come back. So how does this work

There are so many things we can't understand and know in this world. I have no problem with this being one of them. Unless there's a direct l'maaseh for now.

↑ PinkFridge

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:52 am

amother Indigo wrote:

I'm not scared of Moshiach coming. Halevai he should come!
I'm scared of what our fate will be before he comes?

Oh yeah, great people have been afraid. They recommend Torah and maasim tovim to get through chevlei Moshiach. We can do that!

amother

DarkGray

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:52 am

amother Daisy wrote:

I’m confused.

Isn’t moshiach going to come based on our good deeds?

That's y I'm questioning this. Besides when yaakov was on his dying bed he wanted to tell the shvatim when moshiach will be coming, Hashem took away his Ruach Hakodesh, goes to show that this isn't something that's discussed anywhere and we need to hope daily that he's coming now/today.

amother

Lemonchiffon ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 8:57 am

The missing years theory is very solidly backed by evidence. However the basis of the calculation of 6000 is based on our current understanding that the year is 5784. So either way, we are about 200 years to the deadline and everything needs to happen before that date such as moshiach ben yosef, moshiach Ben David, bais hamikdash, gog umagog, world changing to serve Hashem, techies hamaisim, a dynasty of kings from bais David so no we don't have a whole lot of time to get that all done.

I don't know why everyone is getting so worked up by what Rabbi Kessin said. Nothing he said is outrageous or hard to find in the Torah. The reason some people are shocked is because of lack of education. Many rabbonim are talking about it not just him. He just happens to make it very clear in his shiurimnthat are targeted to the topic rather than here and there through other shiur topics. His style doesn't speak to you? That's fine. Don't listen to his lectures but being shocked and calling him out for saying basic commentary on the Torah is unnecessary.

↑ b.chadash ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 9:10 am

PinkFridge wrote:

Yes, I agree with you, and as I said above, even the end time of the year 6,000 (which is taken by many as fact) is actually not. There are strong indications that it may be so, but one is not a kofer if he doesn't believe this.

Once again. I enjoy and gain a lot from Rabbi Kessin's insights. But it is not for everyone. It needs to be taken for what it is: the teaching of one person based on his understanding of the sources. And that is true for every lecturer and Rabbi on Torah Anytime.

As with anything else, if listening to the shiurim brings you closer to Hashem and his Torah, that's great. But if the takeaway is fear, anxiety and possible loss of faith if things don't pan out the way you were lead to believe, it's not worth it.

Last edited by b.chadash on Tue, Aug 06 2024, 1:34 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ b.chadash ↓

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 9:38 am

A while ago, I wrote up a summary of several of Rabbi Kessin's lectures.
One of them, entitled "The Light of redemption throughout the ages, " is not based on current events, but gives an overview of history from the beginning of time and the patterns we can see.
It was obviously a shiur that moved me greatly, and I am still fascinated by its premise.
If anyone is interested, here is the link of the summary: https://www.imamother.com/foru.....00810

amother

↑ Lemonchiffon

Mon, Aug 05 2024, 1:48 pm

b.chadash wrote:

Yes, I agree with you, and as I said above, even the end time of the year 6,000 (which is taken by many as fact) is actually not. There are strong indications that it may be so, but one is not a kofer of he doesn't believe this.
Once again. I enjoy and gain a lot from Rabbi Kessin's insights. But it is not for everyone. It needs to be taken for what it is: the teaching of one person based on his understanding of the sources. And that is true for every lecturer and Rabbi on Torah Anytime.

As with anything else, if listening to the shiurim brings you closer to Hashem and his Torah, that's great. But if the takeaway is fear, anxiety and possible loss of faith if things don't pan out the way you were lead to believe, it's not worth it.

I've had the same question about the year 6000 and from my research, while it's not one of the 13 ikrim, it's an accepted fact based and backed solidly by Torah. It could be it's similar to yetziyas mitzrayim that we can make a calculation error so we don't know exactly what will happen when.