I really don't enjoy my children

↑ ora_43 ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 1:05 am

Second, wanted to agree with the idea that teens might be more interesting again.

Babies and toddlers are adorable. Preteens and teens are getting close to being adults, with their own ideas and opinions and conversational skills.

And elementary-aged kids... less. They're cute, but they're too old for cuteness to overcome all else. They can be clever and sweet, but talking with them is really just listening to them talk at this age.

I'm not saying it's a bad age. There are no objectively bad ages, only ages that some people find harder or easier (a lot of people find toddlers and young teens difficult, because they're driven to disobey even when it's objectively stupid; personally I mostly find this amusing. to each their own). But maybe for you this is a particularly hard age and it's going to get easier again pretty soon.

↑ ora_43 ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 1:12 am

And finally, two things I didn't see here (although might have missed them)

- consider that you might be an introvert

Or maybe you know you are? In any case, maybe part of the challenge here is that you're not getting enough quiet alone time. Which I realize is in very, very short supply as a parent. But is really worth investing in if you can. Trying to parent kids for days on end with no alone time is like trying to walk for days on end without eating.

- look for the worst triggers and tackle those first

What's the hardest for you? Bedtime? Fights? Trying to get everyone organized for school? What's hardest for each of your kids, where are they most likely to melt down/ start a fight/etc?

And then for each answer, brainstorm and think if there might be any ways to make things a little easier. Maybe the kid who always starts fights before dinner needs a snack in the afternoon. Or an hour of quiet time after lunch. Maybe you can take over something your dh is currently doing, and in exchange, he can prepare the kids' bags for school/camp in the morning. etc.

amother

Amaranthus ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 2:39 am

amother OP wrote:

I am quite ashamed to say this, I never thought this would be me but I really don't enjoy being a mother. I used to love kids, was an amazing babysitter, counselor, teacher, I couldn't wait to be a mother but I really hate it.
I'm also really bad at it.
I enjoy the babies but once they are past 3, they become very challenging and drain me completely. I have ADHD and anxiety, both diagnosed after kids and both of which I'm very on top of managing but my kids literally trigger the worst in me. I have taken a bunch of courses, read book, therapy, I still struggle big time. Some days I manage them better than others but at no point am I enjoying them.
I have 4 children, all are ND, who struggle with executive functioning, emotional regulation, impulsivity, and rigidity to name a few.
Each day feels like survival of the fittest and I can't wait until they all fall asleep. I daven for nachas. I spend my entire morning and evening managing meltdowns and fights and needs.
I hate my life.
I get breaks and I live for those breaks. I don't miss my kids, I feel relief.
When my kids are off to school in the morning, a part of me returns to feeling centered and safe and ok. When kids are off of school, it's so hard for me because I don't get my own space to breathe and be.
Please don't tell me they will grow out of it. Their challenges don't get better, they change into different versions of the same challenges as they get older.
Obviously I am not having any more kids.
I don't want to feel this way forever.
Please do not advise therapy or a course, I've done these many times over. If you have support or advice or perspective or tips....anything you can offer here, I would appreciate.

You sound utterly burnt out.

Are some of your ND kids ASD? (ETA: I see you answered this, 3 are AuDHD and one is ADHD.)

It is nice being a parent to NT kids. It is hellish being a parent to ASD kids. They don't grow out of it. Their challenges don't get better. Of course you thought you'd love and enjoy being with your kids. You never thought you'd be going through the hell your life is right now.

However I do think you love your kids, the way you write shows it. Even if you don't enjoy the hell they are putting you through, you still love them.

You are simply in survival mode for too many years already, and when you are in survival mode you enjoy nothing, it is all struggle and tension.

I wish I had advice for you or nice words. Unfortunately I don't. How old is your oldest?

amother

↑ Amaranthus ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 2:45 am

amother Emerald wrote:

ADHD kids are hard to raise . Very hard .
few things I will tell you that’s has helped our family
1. Make sure your kids are on all the right meds they could be on .
If most of their behavior are under control it’ll make a huge difference for your whole family
2. Some ages & stages are harder than others
If you are struggling now & your kids are little it may surprise you & many things maybe easier as they get older .
Hang in there

ADHD kids are a piece of cake to raise. ASD/AuDHD kids are hellish hard to raise.
If you are saying your ADHD kids are hard to raise then maybe they were misdiagnosed ADHD and really should have been diagnosed as HFASD.

amother

↑ Amaranthus ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 3:55 am

ora_43 wrote:

Sorry this is such a strange thing to say. Each person is different. Some ADHD kids are very difficult, some ASD kids are very easy (ditto AuDHD).

I don't know, I am in a group for special needs mothers and not a single person there thinks her ASD or AuDHD kid is very easy.

However, I will say again, many kids are diagnosed ADHD and their HFASD is missed. There is a lot of overlap and many kids manage to mask well, especially girls. But certain issues are red flags for a missed HFASD diagnosis, because they are not part of the ADHD package, but they are part of the ASD package, so when you see one or two or three again then you start to question whether there isn't missed ASD there.

Whether it's worth it to get the child evaluated (or re-evaluiated) for ASD depends largely on what services they are already able to receive and what the additional diagnosis/ paperwork could potentially offer. Many times it's not worth it to get the child evaluated, but still, to blame the child's issues all on ADHD is misleading, to say the least.

↑ ora_43 ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 4:16 am

amother Amaranthus wrote:

However, I will say again, many kids are diagnosed ADHD and their HFASD is missed.

This is very different from saying that ADHD is a "piece of cake" to the point where if someone is struggling, they must have been misdiagnosed.

As for whether AuDHD kids are "hellish hard" keep in mind that parents' forums are mostly for parents who are struggling. People whose kids present as mostly withdrawn and prone to daydreaming, or whose kids are flourishing in an AuDHD-friendly school, are less likely to feel a need for them.

amother

↑ Amaranthus ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 4:35 am

ora_43 wrote:

You are right (in general) about the forum bias, but....the forum I am in is one that many people join simply for recommendations for evals and how to work the bureaucracy. So we do have a spectrum of people who are struggling more vs struggling less but in all cases I don't think anyone would say their ASD/AuDHD child is very easy, and I have yet to meet a parent with a child on the spectrum who thinks that child is very easy.

Perhaps if a parent doesn't have ADHD and isn't familiar with it, then she thinks raising an ADHD child is hard. I have also taught many ADHD kids, the ones who have difficulties and are "hard" are the ones who have comorbid issues either organically or due to the home. The ones whose only issue is ADHD, they are generally not an issue.

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 4:42 am

The pain in your post is so real, so palpable. My heart is hurting for you right now. You are not at all alone in your feelings. There have been times in my parenting journey that I have felt this way, especially about one of my children who has been exhibiting extreme, dangerous, violent behavior and trying to destroy our family from age 4. I'm going to make a suggestion from a completely different angle:

Start nurturing and focusing on yourself.

You are probably so, so incredibly burned out right now. Your kids take so much of you that there's hardly anything left. You have spent so many years putting all your kochos into them. What about YOU? You have needs, you have wants, you probably have dreams somewhere even if they are buried deep inside. It's time to fill yourself with the things that make you happy and alive. Even if it's taking up a new hobby, doing an online course, getting a very part-time job or volunteering, joining a yoga or dance class, whatever. Not another parenting class or shiur, but something you LOVE! (I am thinking of taking up rollerblading! 😄) You deserve it.

I really believe that if you do things that feed yourself, there will be a cascade effect on every other area of your life.

If I am off-base, I apologize. Either way, sending you massive hugs today. ❤️❤️❤️

watergirl

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 4:55 am

amother OP wrote:

I have ADHD and anxiety, both diagnosed after kids and both of which I'm very on top of managing but my kids literally trigger the worst in me. I have taken a bunch of courses, read book, therapy, I still struggle big time.

Hi OP. I read the entire thread (disclaimer). I am stuck on this part.

ADHD and anxiety is a very hard struggle. I have anxiety and I could not manage without zoloft, which I initially started to take combined with basic therapy. It was a complete game changer.

I am very close family and friends with a few people who have ADHD and anxiety and they all refuse to even consider meds. They take natural supplements but it does nothing for them. My SIL is one of these people in my life, she has both as well. I can't have a conversation with her, her ADHD is so significant. She knows it. She hates it. But she has such serious anxiety, she refuses to try meds. She tried one for a week, didn't like the feeling, never looked back. And she has a blessed life, parnassa, loving dedicated husband and parents, just a few kids, beautiful home, but she is trapped in her body. If she was frum, I would wonder if she wrote your OP.

Have you worked with a dr to find proper meds?

amother

↑ Apricot ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 5:48 am

amother Amaranthus wrote:

My AuDHD kid is easy as long as he takes his Adderral, and his routine is kept the same as always. And nobody stops him from using a screen for as long as he wants. And I don't take him out to any place that is crowded.

amother

↑ Amaranthus

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 5:58 am

amother Apricot wrote:

That's a long list of "as long as".....

As long as he has Adderall, a screen, and isn't taken to places like stores, restaurants, any place of entertainment during the summer/ chol hamoed, doctors' offices, busy parks, or even a school setting that is too crowded.

IMO if a child needs so many preconditions to be easy, that's not easy...it's a child who the whole family has to schedule around and adapt everything to, lest there be an explosion/meltdown. Easy kids are ones who if you sell it right can flow with life sans explosions/ meltdowns....

amother

↑ Brown ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 6:17 am

The thing about autism/AuDHD and pure adhd is that kids with them often conflict, to the point that school programs will take on eand not the other, particularly at the middle and high school age.

And kids doing well in school can be nightmares at home. Not just because home is where they let it all out, which is true. But even without being strongly behavioral, when you have kids who are so deficienct in executive functioning and emotional regulation, the structure of school is great. And at home, mom has to be there to guide it all. There's no "He's 14- he can do this himself, and if not, natural consequences will teach him." In most households, when kids get to a certain age, many tasks like this are off of mom. Not this one- it's like having 5 kids under 8 even if more than half are teens or preteens.

Yes, they are interesting as teens. They are also big- no more picking them up and moving them if necessary. If they get dysregulated and lash out physically, on purpose or by accident, it's dangerous and scary. And the natural consequences of their deficiencies start to get emotionally overwhelming. The social issues are next level. Limitations start to show up for long term plans, and they are so painful. You start blaming yourself for what you did and didn't do. It's a lot.

One bonus is that you do often get to a point where you can more easily take one out alone. Before that, it can be really hard logistically. Not so simple to pull these kids out of school for it.

amother

DarkMagenta

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 7:45 am

Op, I haven’t read all the replies but having struggled with the same, I highly suggest you build a life for yourself outside of your children.

We run ourselves ragged when we constantly give and give and feel nothing in return.

What you need more than a mindset shift is a hobby/career/opportunity to explore your gd given talents and skills and use them to build and express yourself.

You’re not finding meaning in raising kids and parenting because it’s not what your sole is craving, although it’s your responsibility.

Is there anything you do well? Any skills you wanna explore or act on?

amother

↑ Apricot

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 8:10 am

amother Amaranthus wrote:

Ok but his sister who supposedly only has ADHD is waaaaay more difficult. She hurts siblings if they do things she doesn't like. She does things just to drive the people around her crazy. She loves balls and anything that resembles a ball is a ball... Sometimes SHE is the ball. She refuses to shower or bathe. Screens make her even more wild. She often talks like a baby and says the strangest things. I have trouble finding babysitters for her because she makes them all miserable. She's a lot better on Adderral but she refuses to take it often enough. She also refuses melatonin even when she wants to sleep and can't.

She is a wonderful kid. She really is. Plenty of enjoyable moments with her. She's also awesome with the baby. Just she makes her younger AuDHD brother look easy.

mitzva

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 10:07 am

amother OP wrote:

When they are sleeping I feel love for them. I love them very much but they exhaust, drain, and trigger me constantly. I don't think I'm depressed.

I try so hard to be a good mother and to run my house and family but I burn out so fast and so many of my struggles clash or are exacerbated by my childrens struggles.

I did not diagnose my children. Doctors did and they were sent for evaluations because they needed it. They each have a diagnosis, some are on medications, all have been in therapy at some point and some still are. This is not something I did to them or created about them, 3 are AuDHD and one is ADHD. My husband is AuDHD himself.

If my kids never had to do anything (go to school, get dressed, hygeine, homework, clean up, sleep etc) I'm sure I would enjoy them more. They aren't bad humans but they struggle so much that managing to get them to do what they need to and have a semblance of peace in this house is a pipedream. They trigger each other, hence the meltdowns and constant fighting. They just have so many needs I once told DH each of them need to be an only child.

I do need to focus more on their maylos, and it's a good reminder to point out whenever someone does even the tinest thing. I'm just in survival mode most of the time.

I will look into shais Taubs course again. Last time I looked into it people told me it's not a practical course at all, it helps you focus on the kids as neshamos but they didn't see any long term difference in their parenting and felt it was a waste of money.

I want to love being a mother, I want to be a better mother but I feel like I'm just going round and round in circles trying things and getting no where and then feeling even worse.

Oh and clearly I'm having a very hard time with the pekel Hashem gave me, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it.

PS notice the word I use to describe my childrens issues is struggles. I don't think they are bad or davka or crazy, I know that these are struggles they have. They would do better or different if they could.

ND's can take everything out of a mother.

your situation can ONLY be understood by mothers with multiple ND's.

your description is an extremely accurate situation of an ND mom.

↑ ora_43

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 11:38 am

amother Amaranthus wrote:

Sure, give me a few minutes, I'm sure I'll manage to find a good way to insult NT mothers.

Just let me get another cup of coffee, okay?

I'm not sure what you're even trying to say. How did NT moms come into this?

I'll just be straightforward: telling people that you know all about what they have and haven't experienced, based on their opinions, is a very unkind thing to do. It would be rude even if all you were saying was "I can tell you've never tried pasta." When you're telling people that you know all about their diagnoses, their kids' diagnoses, their parenting - it's really extremely hurtful.

I don't know why you feel the need to be this mean when you could say literally the exact same thing without the assumptions. Just say "in my experience" not "nobody I know has ever... all kids with adhd... " etc. super simple.