How did we get here??Latenite and overnight trips in day cam

amother

Poppy ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:26 pm

My daughter's camp was very transparent about this and put a box on the application for the parent to check off that they agree to come for pickups and drop offs at crazy hours.

It was nice to know that upfront but I do wish girls' camps gave out the trip schedules to parents in advance, like the boys' camps do. I know that everything needs to be a major breakout, but it's really annoying to only know a day or two before about late nights or early drop offs--and sometimes not to know until that day. We have lives and schedules and other stuff going on and more than once, a last-minute drop off or pickup really messed us up.

On another hand, my daughter's camp had parents vote if they'd rather the girls stay in camp after returning from a late trip, or to come out in middle of the night to pick them up. The majority voted against an overnight so we all had to come pick up at 3 in the morning. I literally drove with my eyes closing every other minute; it was not fun. But at least they asked us what we'd prefer, which was very considerate.

amother

↑ Poppy ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:38 pm

amother Blushpink wrote:

Raise your hand if you liked color War Banging head

Agree with you about color war lol, but I do wish the girls had more sports. My daughter waited and waited for those few times they had major machanayim and basketball games in camp.

Why can't they have leagues and sports every day like the boys? If this is something not every girl would enjoy, why can't at least some of the camps do this and attract the girls that love sports?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:42 pm

amother Poppy wrote:

It's nice that they involved parents in these decisions but honestly the crazy time drop offs and pick ups is the least of it for me.
It's the adult sanctioned party-all-night for a 10 year old that I think is all kinds of wrong.

amother

↑ Poppy ↓

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 10:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

Oh, I'm with you on that don't worry. Write up that petition and you've got my signature.

amother

↑ Natural

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 11:13 pm

Raise your hand if you liked color War Banging head

Idk, my daughter literally came home from camp and burst into tears bc she was told that they are not doing color war this year. She cried and cried, said it's her fave party of camp. What does she love abt it? She said the cheering, the sports,everything. Really, I was surprised to hear that What

amother

Yellow

Wed, Jul 31 2024, 11:41 pm

amother OP wrote:

This too. So much of the "fun" is just hype but really the kids are just falling on their noses.

Agree agree agree
Who thinks of these crazy schedules??
My 11 year old DD had an overnight. She came home from camp at 4:30 regular time. We had to bring her back to camp by 6ish (camp didn’t serve supper). They got back to camp at 3 am. Pickup at 7 am. I drove up to find a crowd of little zombies who didn’t look very happy. No camp that day. DD slept half the day and wound up on a crazy sleep schedule until a few days later, and got sick from lack of sleep. Whyyyyy is this necessary?? For her to go to an amusement park with 30 other camps and go on 3 rides?

I find the camps really don’t think about how this affects the parents. I’m lucky enough to work from home, I don’t know what working moms do with their kids on days like that. They also had a late night that we had to bring the kids BACK to camp a couple hours after it ended and then pick up an hour later. Because we have nothing better to do. And a trip leaving half an hour before camp starts so there’s no morning bus. It’s ridiculous.

Shout out to Camp Shevach and Camp Renana for not doing this lunacy. My girls are too old for those camps now and I didn’t realize how spoiled I was. Not looking forward to teen camp.

amother

↑ Sapphire

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 7:47 am

I don't mind the late trips that come back at 10. I mind the 1 am trips or worse, getting back to camp at 1 am and trying to sleep there. My daughter had me pick her up at 9 am before camp started for the day and went home to sleep. The camps do this to make up for the fact that sleep away camp is too expensive. At least I think that's the reason. And for the record, I hated color war. My daughter and son have sports. The camps also have baking now. And chesed runs. I love chesed runs. There are activities you can do that don't cost a fortune and are fun. When did camps start doing yearly themes. That's what's I want to know. Because that alone is unnecessary.

amother

↑ Oleander ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 8:22 am

the more I read the more it reinforces for me that Lakewood is a world unto its own with community ‘norms’ that aren’t found anywhere else. from the high salaries to the challenges of getting into schools, to the fashion trends and pressures, to this daycamp norm.

OP this sounds awful and I’d hate it too. my 9 year old is in day camp elsewhere in NJ and it’s nothing like what you describe

kermit ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 9:28 am

This isn't new at all!

I went to daycamp in the late 1990s/early 2000s, we had an 'overnight' once a summer, and we all looked SO forward to it!!

HIGHLIGHT of the whole year, from 3rd grade on.

we would go to an amusement park, then we had a real bonfire with hotdogs, roasted marshmallows. then we would bus back to the school/camp building and sleep in sleeping bags on our classroom floors (there were showers in the poolroom but I don't remember anyone using them lol)

I don't remember most of us sleeping. the counselors would hide out in the staff room and we would bang on the door and make them crazy. run around the building giggling. play silly games. eat nosh. bond!

it's summer - there's supposed to be more freedom.

↑ kermit

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 9:31 am

Oh and my son is 8 and in daycamp, they rented out a waterpark with a few other camps a couple weeks ago -- they came home around 11.30 and then they bussed them home for us (so grateful I didn't have to run out)

my son came home STONED out of his mind (he slept a little on the bus) like almost drunk but GLOWING and singing camp songs hoarsely. he had such a good time.

they started daycamp an hour late the next day. my son was more than fine.

he's making lifetime memories and bonding with his class and I'm so grateful to his camp from creating these experiences for him.

amother

↑ Almond

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 9:37 am

amother Oleander wrote:

Building stereotypes in your head based on the most extreme posts is definitely the intelligent way to do things. A town of thousands with many camps etc.. you should for sure ignore the fact that this is only about a select few of them. Definitely don’t read about all the camps that don’t do it. We definitely want you to form the opinion you have decided to form.

↑ keym ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 9:52 am

I also feel like we need to watch the trajectory.
Around 15 years ago, there was a big movement to raise the age of sending boys to sleep away camps (to 7th or 8th as opposed to 5th).
They accomplished this by making the senior divisions in camps way more exciting.

Most parents were thrilled with these late night/overnight water park trips for boys leaving 5th and 6th grade (11-12 year olds) because it gave them enough excitement to not need sleep away camp.

I know. I was one of those mothers.

But some camps starting pushing the bar. Adding 4th grade optional. Then not optional. Then adding 3rd grade.
But that's on the camp, not the system.

I have younger boys also. And I know and it was easy to find out. Some camps do overnights for 3rd and 4th. Some don't. Some do Sahara Sam's for 2-4th coming home at 11, some do it in 1st and then feel the need to do bigger.

There are many camps, and it is possible to find.

It just has to be something important to you.

I have a 4th grade son, so I know while talking to friends mothers and looking into camps, there are parents who look for lower key trip camps for this reason. It exists. Its possible.

I have an older child who thrived on the late night/overnight culture.
He hated leagues and color war.
Another child was the opposite.

That's Chanoch Lnaar.

Another point about looking into camps.

Some camps have structured activities, shows, sports at 4am when they go back to camp. Some have "Jewish videos". And some have "wander around do whatever you want".
These are question to be asked.

amother

Amber

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 10:04 am

It’s pretty bad. As a director in a sleep away camp I would add that my issue is not with e burden it places on parents so much as the chinuch issue. If we are raising the bar so much that 10 and 12 year olds are having trips like this, there’s really nowhere to go from there. Like you are maxing out on the excitement factor way too young, and leaving nothing for them to be excited about as teens. It won’t be as exciting going on a trip to kalahari when you did this four times already. We are setting the bar too high and cheapening everything. Of course these camps are doing it to attract kids, but it’s unhealthy. Some thrills need to be reserved for when they get older so there are still thrills left! What can we do to excite them at 15??? Do they need a yacht around the world next?

amother

Opal ↓

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 10:10 am

I’ll be the voice of dissent here.

I love it. I love the camp spirit. I love watching my kids some home late with all the memories and hoarse voices. I love watching them form experiences that I’d never be able to provide. I’m happy to do pickup and wait up for them.

Childhood is a one time thing. I want my kids to live it up.
If you are a camp director or counselor reading this, thank you for the bottom of my heart!!

amother

↑ Oleander

Thu, Aug 01 2024, 10:19 am

amother Almond wrote:

do you deny that lakewood has community norms that aren’t found elsewhere? has anyone who lives outside of lakewood said that this (late night camp) goes on in their community as well?