Any kriah experts out there?

happy chick ↓

Sat, Jul 27 2024, 10:56 pm

My daughter is almost 6 and just finished pre-1-a. She was doing really well with alef beis and nekudos, but when it came to putting letters together she started getting lost. 2 letters was somewhat ok, but they ended the year with 3 letter words and she's really struggling.

She says all the nekudos to herself while counting on her fingers and then says each letter in the word, but when she has to say the whole word, she cant remember each letter she literally just said. She's otherwise a bright kid, but struggling here.

Anyone have any advice?

tinyspark

Sat, Jul 27 2024, 11:26 pm

Try with only א And ב words with a ה at end. Then try endings with א ב ג. Before you goʻ to harder words ,
It's important for kids to ,have syllable awareness . Read the word together how many sound do you hear. make a line separating each sound group. Ex. אגב would have two syllables א גב

amother

Blush

Sat, Jul 27 2024, 11:27 pm

Hate to say this but we had the same issue with DS and he now has a dyslexia diagnosis. Maybe you want to get her evaluated. Does she struggle with blending in English too?

↑ happy chick ↓

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 7:39 am

amother Blush wrote:

Hate to say this but we had the same issue with DS and he now has a dyslexia diagnosis. Maybe you want to get her evaluated. Does she struggle with blending in English too?

She hasn't started learning a-b-c's yet. The thing is, kamatz and patach she can blend very well, it starts with tzeirei and on that she has to count on her fingers.

↑ happy chick ↓

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 7:42 am

tinyspark wrote:

She didn't learn yet ה at the end of the word ,neither a letter without a neukdah.

↑ happy chick ↓

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 7:44 am

amother Natural wrote:

Not a kriah expert but I would look into auditory processing and visual processing issues.

Who does this type of evaluation?

We had an evaluation for her earlier this year to get her service cuz she's a bit fidgety and has a hard time sitting and focusing, but we were denied service by the doe. The claimed they "don't have a clarification for her".

amother

DarkViolet

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 7:51 am

In New York, the DOE will only give services if the child qualifies for one of the 13 classifications the have. When they tested my child, they would have qualified for related services like OT, but because they didn't fit one of the classifications for an IEP like Autism, learning impaired, language impaired etc..., they were not able to get services.

amother

Seagreen ↓

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 7:52 am

happy chick wrote:

She hasn't started learning a-b-c's yet. The thing is, kamatz and patach she can blend very well, it starts with tzeirei and on that she has to count on her fingers.

What does counting on her fingers mean?

Can she do 2 and 3 syllable words of just Kamatz and pasach? Kamatz and pasach combined?

↑ happy chick ↓

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 7:54 am

amother Seagreen wrote:

What does counting on her fingers mean?

Can she do 2 and 3 syllable words of just Kamatz and pasach? Kamatz and pasach combined?

Yes and yes, the difficulty starts with tzeirei. I'm not sure what the counting is, but she says all the nekudos starting with kamatz while counting them on her fingers.

amother

Azure ↓

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 8:21 am

Try teaching her the letter vowel combinations as units, make flashcards of all the Alef beis with tzeirei and just practice those. Then add a card with a kamatz or patach letter vowel unit and have her try to read them in sequence.

If she's counting on her fingers, she's missing the principle that nekudos don't make a sound on their own, they only have sound when combined with a letter.

↑ happy chick ↓

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 8:34 am

amother Azure wrote:

She says to herself "kamatz, patach, tzeirei, segel, shva, etc..." all while counting them on her fingers. No idea how that helps her. But that's what she does. Then when she hits the right neukdah, she'll say chirik beis, bei and she does that with each letter. But by the time she got thru all 3 letters and nekudos in the word, she can't say the whole word.

I'm having a hard time understanding her difficulty and it's so frustrating for both of us.

amother

↑ Azure ↓

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 8:38 am

happy chick wrote:

I teach Kriah, I've taken many courses in it, I don't consider myself an expert though so I'm just sharing what I notice. I don't think she's ready for words, don't do words , just do letter vowel combinations until she's able to see a letter with a nekuda and associate the sound without counting to which nekuda it is.

↑ happy chick ↓

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 8:47 am

amother Azure wrote:

Thanks for the idea. I was actually thinking that too, maybe to go backwards a bit and start over with nekudos. She's starting grade 1 in only 5 weeks, I need to catch her up!! Aaahhhh!!

Ok, I got this! 💪

amother

↑ Seagreen ↓

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 10:21 am

happy chick wrote:

Sounds like she can't recall the name of the nekuda without listing them all in order. And then she uses the name as a cue to remember the sound

I would go all the way back and teach her just nekuda sounds in isolation. She should be able to look at a nekuda and say it's name and it's sound, and then eventually drop the name and just say the sound. Once she has that, you can move on to blending a single letter with a single nekuda.

amother

Navy

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 10:24 am

I do kriah remedial. I would do just tzeirei syllables of ois nekuda. The do single syllables combined kamatz pasach and tzeirei. Until she is fluent just eith flash cards type. Then add segul. But also individually. Forget combining syllables.

↑ happy chick

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 10:26 am

amother Navy wrote:

So now I'm confused. There's the option of doing all the nekudos individually and then combining, or doing each neukdah and combing each neukdah that she's fluent in. Which option is more effective?

amother

↑ Seagreen

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 10:30 am

happy chick wrote:

So now I'm confused. There's the option of doing all the nekudos individually and then combining, or doing each neukdah and combing each neukdah that she's fluent in. Which option is more effective?

It seems she has some blending skills for the nekudos she's mastered because you said she can blend 2 and 3 syllable words with kamatz and pasach. So once she masters tzeireh in isolation and then with a single nekuda, you can start adding tzeirei into the 2 and 3 syllable words so she gets to work on that too.

amother

↑ Azure

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 10:31 am

happy chick wrote:

So now I'm confused. There's the option of doing all the nekudos individually and then combining, or doing each neukdah and combing each neukdah that she's fluent in. Which option is more effective?

Build slowly, do Kamatz, Patach and Tzeirei as letter vowel combinations then as small words then as larger words and then start adding some letters with segol etc

amother

Oxfordblue

Sun, Jul 28 2024, 4:12 pm

Joining in to agree that it seems your daughter is not ready to be reading words with all of these nekudos. Even though she is almost in first grade - it is much better to slow down and give her the proper foundation before hurrying her along, where she’ll get more lost.

I would do plenty of review of nekudos in isolation. Use your hands or body to make the shape of the nekuda. Lots of multi sensory cues. She really needs to know the nekudos well without blending. Then you can try blending, but I would stick with just os and nekuda before trying to mix them together.