Toronto | Imamother

amother

Candycane ↓

Thu, Jul 25 2024, 10:19 pm

amother OP wrote:

So I'm seeing more negative than positives...

I was born in Toronto, married another torontonian and lived there until we moved with our family a couple of years ago. (I am old enough to have taken OACs 😉)
I won’t share all the things that we didn’t like specifically but I will say that if you’re coming as part of a kollel, you will have an automatic social group, you will automatically fit into a box which is important in Toronto, you will likely get vouchers so your kids can wear the in-style frum styles.
The schools have undergone some change with BYES getting a new head of school 2 years ago, TTC getting a new Menahel… those are things you should specifically talk to people currently in Toronto about if those are schools you’re considering.

amother

↑ Catmint ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 12:52 am

amother Candycane wrote:

Who is the new head of BYES? It used to be Mrs. Simon right? (Bets on Mrs. Ochs, she was always a dominant figure, amazing multitasker and educator.)

Wow TTC getting a new menahel too. Times have changed....

I still miss Mrs. Drebin. Always loved her so much.

Can I ask where you moved to?

amother

↑ Candycane

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 4:20 am

amother Catmint wrote:

It’s someone they brought in - Mrs Rubin from I think NY or NJ. I left before her.
Mrs Simon moved to Israel (so did we!), Mrs Ochs is still there but not as head of school.
Rabbi Engel moved to Lakewood, Rabbi Gopin is the new menahel.

amother

↑ Burlywood ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 6:09 am

amother OP wrote:

So I'm seeing more negative than positives...

Lol, in your original OP you only asked for positive info. Why'd you do that if you actually want to know the truth? 😂

Here's the truth. The issue for people like you is sure, the first few years DH is in kollel things will be great. Kollel will provide you a 3 bedroom apartment for your small family, you'll have friends through the kollel, kids are in great schools etc. A few years down the line you will have 7-8+ kids still in a small rundown 3 bedroom apartment and no way to get out because housing prices are crazy. At this point it's not so easy to move because kids are settled in school and hard to uproot everyone.

Even if DH becomes a Rebbe here, the school might rent you a tiny house - literally this just happened to my neighbor. They have 7 kids in a 2 bedroom house. Almost less space than their kollel apartment. (But they do have a backyard)

In terms of special edd programs- I don't think people realize although Toronto is a large community, it is a tiny tiny fraction of the NY/NJ communities. There is no way we could fill up a whole school just for frum special Ed kids. There's just not enough people here.

amother

↑ OP

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 6:30 am

amother Burlywood wrote:

Lol I know some negatives about it but want to see if some positives outweigh the negatives..

amother

↑ Catmint ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:19 am

amother Burlywood wrote:

In terms of special edd programs- I don't think people realize although Toronto is a large community, it is a tiny tiny fraction of the NY/NJ communities. There is no way we could fill up a whole school just for frum special Ed kids. There's just not enough people here.

Okay but why not special classes within the existing schools? Why not therapists in school? If there aren't enough hours for one school to offer a specialist, then a couple of the frum schools could get together and offer a full-time position to whoever they want to work with for ST, OT, music therapist, special ed adviser, etc. For instance she works in TTC on Sundays, BYES on Mondays and Wednesdays, Eitz Chaim on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Or BYES in the mornings, Eitz Chaim in the afternoons, TTC on Sundays and Fridays. Whatever.

I can see that not every grade will have enough kids for a special class but they could do like in Israel - first grade HFASD class is in BYES this year, Eitz Chaim next year, the chassidic BY (I forget what it's called) the year after that, BCM the year after that. Parents with kids who need that class will choose between not giving their kid what they need, and compromising by sending to a school that isn't perfectly their hashkafa but IS religious. For boys TTC one year, Cheder Chabad the next year, etc. And then they keep that class to graduation. Is it perfect, no, does it work, yes.

But what I really don't get is having absolutely nothing at all for these kids. Like...HOW???? How does that work? Most of these schools don't even allow a shadow. I think only Eitz Chaim lets shadows.

It just doesn't make sense to me. Really really not.

amother

Firebrick

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:31 am

amother Catmint wrote:

I wonder if there are cultural differences between the US and Canada that might explain. The US has very strict laws about what students with disabilities are entitled to in terms of extra services and quality of their education. Does Canada? Even if the laws only apply to public schools it’s possible that the attitude or approach has filtered down to frum schools in one place but not another.

Just a guess, I don’t know this for sure.

amother

↑ Burlywood ↓

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:44 am

amother Catmint wrote:

K, to be clear, yes, there are a lot of special Ed services here, just not as much compared to NY/NJ.

First of, yes all schools allow shadows in the classroom

Second, of course the kids get speech, OT etc. they just get pulled out of class

Third, yes there is lots of remedial resources/resource rooms for kids who struggle! There is Kol korei etc.

KCC is actually a bigger school and has more services than Zareinu had. But as people said, it's really for lower functioning kids right now.

I'd say the only thing were really missing is perhaps a class/school for really severe behavioral kids or more severe learning disabilities. They will still get pulled out of class for resource room and all the therapies etc. and have a shadow but it's often not enough for these kids. This is the type of specialty program that could probably only exist in a larger community.

amother

↑ Cinnamon

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 7:49 am

amother Burlywood wrote:

Do parents pay for therapies out of pocket or does government chip in?

amother

↑ Catmint

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 8:26 am

amother Burlywood wrote:

Interesting, which schools allow shadows in the classroom? Because when my sister looked into it she was told no. (Don't want to out her or me.)

Also which schools offer in-school OT and ST? I know BYES gave therapy once a week, pulling the kid out of class, but pretty sure they didn't offer anything else at all, other than remedial class in some instances.

I was the one who said KCC is lower-functioning kids. Smile

What is Kol Korei? Is it a program? Who is it for? (Asking for a friend. Truly.)

Those are two specific groups, but again I don't see why it can't exist in Toronto, especially if it is a communal effort and the schools work together to make it happen.

amother

↑ Burlywood

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 9:09 am

amother Catmint wrote:

In terms of shadows, I know for a fact there are kids with shadows at BYES and yesodai which are the main yeshivish boys and girls schools down south. It's possible it is child dependent and families/schools need to work together to make it doable. Maybe for your sister the school just thought for whatever reason it wouldn't work and said no. But it's not a rule across the board. Also parents have to figure out the funding themselves, schools won't pay for it (maybe that's what you mean when you say school said no?)

Every school offers ST, PT and OT. For speech kids get about 20 sessions in a block (once every few years) and OT/PT it's 5 sessions. It's not a lot because It's supposed to be more of a consultative program. This is fully covered by the government. If you want more you can always pay privately.

BYES also has a private SLP that works for them full time and they pay directly (not from government) so kids can get more services.

Kol korei is for kids who have trouble reading specifically. that's just an example of one service most schools offer. Aside from that, there is a large remedial department in BYES and Yesodai. They have tutoring and resource rooms for kids who are struggling. The tutors etc. are often young, inexperienced post sem girls since they don't have to pay them too much, but it's better than nothing. they are overseen by head of remedial departments who have more experience.

In terms of other more speciality programs (behavioral, high functioning but learning disabilities, maybe just social issues- these are just examples) , sure the schools are working on it, but like I said, there is just not enough kids to have programs equivalent to what they have in larger communities. Even KCC doesn't have as many/ as good services as there exists in NY/NJ for these types of kids. Its no one's fault. This is just a reality of living OOT. Same reason we don't have as many restaurants/kosher groceries/frum clothing etc. as there is in town. Theres just not enough people/kids to patron these types of places.

amother

Bluebonnet

Fri, Jul 26 2024, 9:30 am

I’m from Toronto.

Here are some positives-
Absolutely beautiful in terms of aesthetics of the city itself, the architecture etc.
Gorgeous, clean downtown.
Relatively safe, as in there’s no “bad area” to stay away from, we never locked our doors during the day, felt safe walking out at night. (I mean now the country is seemingly overrun with Palestinian protestors so not sure about long-term safety but that’s a different issue.)
Nice polite Canadian locals, eh?
Beautiful parks. So much to do- local skiing, biking, amusement parks. Grew up riding my bike through easy accessible trails near the frum community.
Good kosher restaurants (my current community does not have this!)
Relatively easy drive to NY/NJ and other east coast out of town communities (Cleveland, Detroit, Baltimore etc)