Do you really think Hashem wants us to wear lacetops?

B'Syata D'Shmya

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 1:33 pm

amother Oatmeal wrote:

Isn't it sad that as a group of hair covering women, we still have all these questions? I wish all the answers were more clear to us! I am married 6 years, and it's the hardest mitzvah for me ever. Why has no one explained the whole mitzvah to us in a way that makes us happy to do it or at least understand it so that we don't have all these questions all the time. Valid question btw OP, I just wish that after all these years of women covering their hair, we weren't so in the dark about the whole mitzvah. End of rant.

For you L'fi Tzaarah Agrah. Yes, some or even many of the mitzvas are "chok", where we dont understand them.
Its not an easy mitzvah.

amother

Pearl

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 1:37 pm

amother Viola wrote:

Do you really think Hashem cares about how people cover their hair?

This.
When I see the erase the lace ads my brain calculates how much that ad costed and where the tzedaka money could have gone to really help klal yisrael.

amother

↑ Oatmeal ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:16 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

So why not learn about the halacha? A few years ago this mitzvah was really bothering me, many different elements about it. I took the bull by the horn and started learning about it, with sources and everything. Do I still have questions? Yes, but I am able to understand so much more and now know what to really ask about if and when I want to delve even deeper.

Oh trust me, I've been trying for 6 years. Still it doesn't make sense to me and doesn't sit well with me. On any other topic I've struggled with, learning has helped, but not with hair covering. It just doesn't make sense any way you put it. But I'm turning this whole thread into something else now ha.

Did you mean hair covering specifically or another mitzvah?

amother

↑ Oatmeal ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:22 pm

[quote="Brit in Israel"]
The Halacha is that hair of a married or once married women is Erva -considered nakedness.
That's the Halacha.

Yes but covering with more hair just sounds and feels so silly and never made sense to me. I wish it did, but it doesn't. It's such a weird concept!

Sorry for the weird example but covering hair with hair is basically like getting dressed wearing this tee shirt:
https://I.ebayimg.com/images/g.....0.jpg
(Don't click if you don't want to see anything not tznius)
You're covered but you look like you're not.

Like oh I'm covering my hair but I'm covering with something that looks the same. Make it make sense.

amother

↑ Forestgreen

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:24 pm

[quote="amother Oatmeal"]

Brit in Israel wrote:

The Halacha is that hair of a married or once married women is Erva -considered nakedness.
That's the Halacha.

Yes but covering with more hair just sounds and feels so silly and never made sense to me. I wish it did, but it doesn't. It's such a weird concept!

Sorry for the weird example but covering hair with hair is basically like getting dressed wearing this tee shirt:
https://I.ebayimg.com/images/g.....0.jpg
(Don't click if you don't want to see anything not tznius)
You're covered but you look like you're not.

Like oh I'm covering my hair but I'm covering with something that looks the same. Make it make sense.

Do you think it's weird that you can carry on shabbos if you string up strings and a pole.

amother

↑ Oatmeal ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:26 pm

amother Forestgreen wrote:

Do you think it's weird that you can carry on shabbos if you string up strings and a pole.

Not the same thing. Covering something with something identical...how is that the same?

amother

↑ Oatmeal ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:29 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

For you L'fi Tzaarah Agrah. Yes, some or even many of the mitzvas are "chok", where we dont understand them.
Its not an easy mitzvah.

I don't think this is considered a chok. But no one seems to be able to explain it to women well...Rabbis are men and hard for them to understand the struggle of this mitzvah.

amother

Winterberry ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:32 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

What sources did you look at? just asking bc I would also like to look into this

amother

↑ Hawthorn

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:46 pm

amother Oatmeal wrote:

Not the same thing. Covering something with something identical...how is that the same?

Its rhe concept that halachik patameters matter whether you understand or agrees to to why they "work".

amother

↑ Oatmeal ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:50 pm

amother Hawthorn wrote:

Its rhe concept that halachik patameters matter whether you understand or agrees to to why they "work".

I hear you. The eruv thing does make more sense somehow though. Hair covering with a wig just doesn't. Nothing wrong with trying to understand more. But yes sometimes we just don't, that's true.

↑ Brit in Israel ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:51 pm

amother Forestgreen wrote:

Do you think it's weird that you can carry on shabbos if you string up strings and a pole.

no coz its says in the torah to make an area a personal space and you can carry.
BTW to make an eruv its not just putting string on a pole to be able to carry. you have to atleast partially own the land where there is many ways of doing it and if you want to understand it either learn it or ask a rabbi well learned in the eruv area to explain.

↑ Brit in Israel

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 2:56 pm

[quote="amother Oatmeal"]

Brit in Israel wrote:

According to strict halacha there is nothing wrong for you to wear that tshirt. as long as above your elbows and your turso is covered you are ok!
but then there is another area of tznius and refinement (they are not the same thing)
So if you are going only according to the Torah go ahead and buy yourself that shirt.... but we have rabbonim who say its ok (wigs) or its not ok (wigs for R' ovadias followers or some chassidim)

↑ 1346

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 3:33 pm

'Tznius' isn't about your level of hair covering or exact measurements.
Its not so much a mitzvah its more of a middah.
Tznius is there for us to remember that were always in Hashems presence. Awareness of Hashem- yiras shamayim-putting hashem in the center of our life.
You want to wear lace so badly so you're mocking the ads?
That'll get you nowhere.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 8:47 pm

amother Oatmeal wrote:

I meant this mitzvah specifically.

amother

↑ Daphne ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 8:50 pm

amother Winterberry wrote:

What sources did you look at? just asking bc I would also like to look into this

Did you look through the book "Reclaiming Dignity"? Excellent book with sources.

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 8:50 pm

amother Winterberry wrote:

What sources did you look at? just asking bc I would also like to look into this

I dont remember exactly. This was a while ago. I read hide and seek and at the end there were sourses. I started there.
https://www.urimpublications.c......html

amother

↑ Saddlebrown

Wed, Jul 24 2024, 10:36 pm

Cressel wrote:

This podcast episode by Halacha Headlines covers the topic well:

https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-tcuyd-105e320

with Rabbi Yitzchok Berkowitz - Rosh Yeshiva Aish Hatorah – 12:05
with Rabbi Shmuel Felder - Poseik BMG Lakewood – 14:03
with Rabbi Gedaliah Oberlander - Rov, Heichal Menachem, Monsey NY – 17:24
with Hagaon Rav Reuven Feinstein - Rosh Yeshiva Staten Island – 23:48
with Rabbi Daniel Ahron Coren - Rov, Monsey NY – 29:15
with Dini Weinberg - Dinis Wigs – 53:41

↑ Ruchi

Thu, Jul 25 2024, 12:00 am

Raisin wrote:

The Lubavitcher Rebbe told women to wear beautiful wigs. And even gave women money towards it. Pretty sure the Rebbe has a better idea of what Hashem wants than you.

However, if some women are not comfortable wearing something so natural, bh there are plenty of other options out there.

Trust me, you wouldn't want to be seen wearing those beautiful wiggly looking sheitels , from over 30 years ago.

amother

Lightgray

Thu, Jul 25 2024, 12:05 am

Ruchi wrote:

Trust me, you wouldn't want to be seen wearing those beautiful wiggly looking sheitels , from over 30 years ago.

That's likely more a factor of the style (puffy) than the way they were made. You wouldn't want the haircuts or clothing of 30 years ago either.

My current shaitel is probably fairly similar in structure to the one my mother wore when I was young, but mine is sleeker because that's the style now.

They had human hair wigs then too. I don't know if skin tops were common in those days, but I doubt that it made a dramatic difference in their appeal.