BT meshugas? | Imamother

amother

OP ↓

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 8:29 pm

I hear so many stories of BT who go overboard with their chumras and their children go otd. So I’m a little worried I’m being crazy.

My 2.5 year old loves all princesses, especially the little mermaid. Her grandmother gave her a little mermaid Barbie and she talks about mermaids/ princesses all the time. I don’t let her watch and don’t really want her to get too into that. I almost feel like it’s unfair to expose my kids to secular culture and then be like : oh no, you can’t be part of that! I know it’s on like merchandise like toothbrushes from the dentist and her little toddler underwear and stuff.

I’m torn between the “just let it go she’s a baby” and “this really isn’t a good example ofTorah values” / etc
I tried to convince her it was Queen Esther but my MIL got to her first and she knows it’s called Ariel… Rolling Eyes

OOT yeshivish but my community includes a wide range…

I’m being crazy, right? Right….???

amother

DarkRed

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 8:34 pm

I don’t know. My parents are right wing BTs and definitely went overboard. We weren’t allowed to have characters on our underwear as really little kids. No denim skirts and then later when we were allowed denim skirts, they couldn’t have a zipper in front. And many more rules that were stricter than normal. And it all backfired. I’m not commenting on the specific example that you gave but maybe you have a ffb role model or mentor that you could reach out to and they can help guide you. Hatzlacha!

Wanted to add that I happen not to allow Barbie’s in my house. I know others feel the same bec of their very pronounced body parts. And I’m not super yeshivish.

amother

Antiquewhite

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 8:40 pm

Our girls play with characters even if they don’t watch the movies or know the stories.

We all grew up with Barbies, Mickey Mouse, and curious George.

Even if we didn’t have them, we had friends we played with that did.

amother

Lightgreen

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 8:40 pm

Curious if this who are saying let it go are yeshivish oot type like her?

I did allow characters when my oldest were toddlers. Then I realized it’s mixed messages. I don’t want these as their role models. I am a more careful now. They do have Barbie’s but I mostly get the teens and kids, and they all have dresses no super skimpy outfits. I don’t allow things like Ariel in my house because she’s in a bikini. I do allow some princess things that are in gowns. I don’t think you are being extreme. But don’t lie about names. And you can tell your family what your preferences are.

rmbg

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 8:44 pm

The answers are going to differ here. Everyone is coming from a different background and culture. Personally, I dont think thats called crazy. Thats how it is in my home and all my family and peers…

amother

Emerald

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 8:46 pm

We didn't buy character stuff for our kids but they got a few things as gofts and we didn't maje a big deal out of it. They never got super into these characters they sometimes played with.

amother

Cognac ↓

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 8:57 pm

Not BT, my parents are though.
We don't have anything with characters and no not tznius princesses, I don't think it's extreme, pretty standard in my circles

amother

Bottlebrush ↓

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:00 pm

You should talk this over with your rav. Whether or not you are being over the top will depend a lot on your community, which is something your rav is likely to have a better feel for than you.

Just my two cents, from living in an OOT yeshivish/JPF community: if you are a BT with nonfrum family who are otherwise nice people to whom you'd like to stay close, you should not be striving to be in the top 10% or 20% most insular or sheltered families in your community.

amother

Lavender

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:04 pm

I am OOT yeshivish. Ideally I do not introduce my children to these secular characters because they are not part of our world. My parents know this and understand it, even though I grew up with them.

I won’t go crazy if they get a toothbrush with a character or a sticker from the doctor. I just don’t name them so my kids don’t get attached to them as specific characters.

IMO you don’t sound like you’re going overboard. It sounds like you have a vision of the home you want, which does not include secular characters. It may be more complicated, though, if your parents do not understand.

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:09 pm

My parents were what you’d call crazy Baal teshuvas. We’re all frum raising frum families.
My parents took away nosh we got from school that wasn’t a good enough hechsher for them and replaced it with different candy. My parents didn’t let us read any non Jewish books (even as little kids) we only read those books in school. We didn’t watch a single video as kids. My parents thought they were all TV.
As long as you replace what you’re not allowing with something else the same or better I think it’s fine.
A kid going OTD is in the hands of Hashem.

amother

↑ OP

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:14 pm

My in laws are really nice and I actually have a better relationship with them than my own parents and I absolutely don’t want to alienate them but she is exposed to so much at their house . In the long run, I know it probably will not hurt her but I don’t want to make things any harder for her than it already will be with two bt parents . I don’t worry that she’s going to go otd because she plays with a mermaid doll as a toddler, but more because she’s just going to have all these little idiosyncrasies add up and feel like she’s never truly fit in her own school/ friend group/ etc.Her father, without any ill intent, marches to the beat of his own drum. Let’s just say we’re OOT for a reason…

True I could probably ask a rav .it just feels a little embarrassing to ask my rav about this

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:14 pm

Fine, but get on the same page with your MIL. There should be a united front. The kid(s) should not be getting different messages from you and from her. Or anybody. All the same, consistent.

THAT's what's bothersome.

(I'm BT.)

amother

Yarrow

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:16 pm

Ok. My husband and I are BTs and we definitely have the same fear so I completely understand you. We’ve been talking about this since our first date. Regarding non Jewish characters - I’ve learned to just go with the flow when they’re really little I.e they’ll also get something Disney from my parents and I’ll say oh wow what a pretty princess or cute monkey etc when they got older and found out the name somehow or even ask me to watch the show I would just say hmm that’s non jewish , we don’t watch that. My kids are still pretty young but they already know and say “ich that’s non jewish” or “she’s not tznius”. We try our best. Hatzlacha.

amother

↑ Bottlebrush

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:20 pm

amother OP wrote:

True I could probably ask a rav .it just feels a little embarrassing to ask my rav about this

For BTs and geirim, I think it is so, SO important to have a local rav who is open to these kinds of conversations. I don't mean that you call him every week to ask in detail about every doll and toy, but you need to calibrate periodically. You won't be calling him to ask, "Can DD keep this doll," but the doll story would ideally be a jumping off point for a conversation about what your ideal vision is for your family vs. what is an optimal vision given your community and your family situation. As your kids get older, there may be different approaches for different kids.

A distant gadol or chinuch expert won't really know your family or your community.

In my experience, 99% of OOT yeshivish rabbis are down to earth, very normal, not extreme at all, and know how to help people balance competing variables.

amother

↑ Cognac

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:24 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

I disagree, my MIL isn't frum, I can't expect her to be on the same page as me Chinuch wise, that's not realistic. She has been begging to have my oldest kids sleep over by her for a night, I know it will never happen because I know she can not wrap her head around the lifestyle choice my husband and I have made. She doesn't have the same values as us and it's not realistic to expect her to abide by the values that are important to us.

amother

Clear

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:36 pm

We're not BT and don't have Barbies, mermaids, etc. Normal cute dolls are fine. In general we arent crazy and I honestly have no idea which of our friends allow Barbies. You are definitely allowed to set standards.
When we moved to the same city as my in laws they would often give my kids none CY chocolate. We realized we were sending our kids mixed messages as they got older and we respectfully asked them to stop buying it. They respected our wishes.

amother

Ruby

Sun, Jul 14 2024, 9:37 pm

I’m a BT and don’t think it’s crazy not to bring Disney princesses into the home. There are actually a lot of articles about women (not Jewish) who feel that being exposed to that was not healthy for them as they became women and started comparing themselves to these fake images of perfection. I’m ok with hello kitty or the like, I’m not overly crazy about characters if they are animals but mermaids and princesses are a no for me. I feel like why introduce it and then tell them we don’t dress like this. It’s not worth it. I also allow minimal screen time. I also understand the conflict with non observant family as none of my family is frum. My sister will bring her sons over and they introduce Batman and game boy to my kids and I hate it. I try to balance shalom bayis with upholding our families boundaries and hashkafos but it’s not always an easy rope to walk.
I do have a Rav I’m close with and would be very comfortable to ask these questions to him.