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-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
-> Seminary Info
amother
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 Fri, Jun 28 2024, 12:53 pm
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Just saying if we emanate seminary we need to put into place post high school learning programs like a nacht Seder. We need to encourage adult women to learn, not the opposite.
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amother
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 1:10 pm
| amother Steel wrote: | | Just saying if we emanate seminary we need to put into place post high school learning programs like a nacht Seder. We need to encourage adult women to learn, not the opposite. |
Ok. The need to encourage women to learn shouldn't be including a mandated 25k expense.
And the need shouldn't be applied to only one particular year. It should be a lifestyle.
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amother
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 1:12 pm
I also want to add, that most girls need much more than “the basics of running a Jewish home” to be a committed Jew. Besides for the fact that they will be doing much more than running a Jewish home in their life times.
A woman learning Torah protected a sotah for up to three years. Think for a second how big of a mitzvah that is. Discouraging girls and women from learning will best case scenario just produce less serious Jews and worse case scenario make it impossible for them to be frum.
Those that say that in the olden days they “figured it out”… yes women wore skirts, covered their hair (not always) and benched Licht. But if you read closely you will see that many many many women struggled with ehrlichkeit to the point of disinterest.
And the disinterest affects the children. I strongly suspect that if our communities would have prioritized learning for women more then mashiach could have been here already.
Hashem wanted to bring Mashiach when every man, woman and child knew the most complicated Halachos, so I’m not making it up.
We need to strongly encourage women and girls to commit themselves to learning and to Judaism. All the way. If seminary doesn’t work we need a different option. Even if learning is technically optional we are going to lose our women if we don’t encourage it. Just like having children. For women it’s optional, but if no one does it we will lose everything.
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Ruchel
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 2:42 pm
" But if you read closely you will see that many many many women struggled with ehrlichkeit to the point of disinteres" this was when they were legally mandated to send to public school
No one is saying we shouldn't send to frum school
If 12 years, or as is often today15 yeards of such isn't enough, one year won't help.
"Hashem wanted to bring Mashiach when every man, woman and child knew the most complicated Halachos" this is not how everyone holds not how it happened even for men in many many ehrliche communities
I agree about learning needing to be accessible to everyone who wants it and other options, realistic ones, not being asked 25000+ dollars. Same for yeshiva.
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amother
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 2:52 pm
| Ruchel wrote: | " But if you read closely you will see that many many many women struggled with ehrlichkeit to the point of disinteres" this was when they were legally mandated to send to public school
No one is saying we shouldn't send to frum school
If 12 years, or as is often today15 yeards of such isn't enough, one year won't help.
"Hashem wanted to bring Mashiach when every man, woman and child knew the most complicated Halachos" this is not how everyone holds not how it happened even for men in many many ehrliche communities
I agree about learning needing to be accessible to everyone who wants it and other options, realistic ones, not being asked 25000+ dollars. Same for yeshiva. |
Do you know the story I’m referring to? I’m referring to Hashem wanting to make king Chizkiyahu Mashiach. I never heard they were differing opinions as to why. Can you clarify?
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Cheiny
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 2:58 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I see this on a lot of threads. Seminary is such a terrible waste of money, a real luxury, how could it have become standard.
It's not right for everyone, but I do not think sem is a luxury at all!
Think about it. Girls go through high school and have to do so legally. They are forced go to class, do the work, and pass to get a high school diploma.
Without seminary, afterwards they will be forced to go full-time into parnasa, either working or going to college.
Some girls want that, and good for them. Nobody should be pressured to go to seminary.
But other girls would benefit from having one year to learn for its own sake. To live away from home but in a structured environment, with other girls. To get to see a new place, meet inspiring role models, and have some time to think about what type of life they want to build for themselves.
That's not a luxury. It's a very helpful transition phase from high school student to independent adult.
Sure you can survive without seminary, but the definition of luxury is not "anything not absolutely essential for survival."
There may be specific seminaries that are more expensive, but the general framework (a dorm, more freedom than high school, choosing to learn without a diploma threat) is not a luxury at all.
Additionally this "sem is a luxury" attitude is very chauvinist. Boys finish high school and are not told immediately to go to work. They go to several years of very expensive Beis Medrash. Even outside of the super charedi community a "gap year" of learning for boys is standard.
People complain about the $20K price tag of seminary, but DS is in yet another year of Beis Medrash in the USA with a sticker price of $25K and nobody tells me that I should stop getting tuition assistance since I have a 19yo in such an expensive school (I don't even think his is the most expensive).
But if I give DD that one year of seminary, I obviously have messed up priorities and should not be getting any breaks. |
I couldn’t disagree more. Seminary in Israel is a fad that’s unfortunately taken hold, and people are bankrupting themselves and worrying about their daughters not getting shidduchim if they don’t fall in line with ridiculous fads like these. It’s pathetic and a lack of emunah.
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amother
Wine
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 3:02 pm
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Everything that is learnt in Seminary regarding "living a torah life" and "running a jewish home" should be taught in School (and at home) until they are 18. After paying for about 14 years of schooling, anyone graduating a BY school should have been taught enough to live a frum life. The actual practicality of doing it may not be there yet, hence the "year off" is a great learning opportunity for most people to live life without the confines of your parents. I dont believe the main benefit of seminary is the learning aspect, but the living in a different place, managing on your own, experiencing a new environment, and if possible discovering and experiencing Eretz Yisroel. But all that can be done for less than $25k! Just a few friends can rent an apartment and live life! Obviously within a controlled sem environment to ease into the "the real world" may be easier to do. If you are looking for further higher education (like a yeshiva for boys) there can be places for that too - but it is certainly not for everyone. Just like College, yes there are benefits to sem, but it is a luxury and you obviously have to pay for that.
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amother
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 5:22 pm
| Ema of 5 wrote: | | If 12 years of schooling, including four intense years of high school, doesn’t provide enough of a foundation with which to start a Jewish home, there is something wrong with our system. |
You could say the same about college. Yet many need or want extra training to be prepared for adult life. Elementary and HS are just the basics.
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amother
NeonBlue
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 5:24 pm
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I do love how everyone is using 25K as some sort of guide post when we’re spending north of 30K for seminary tuition this year. That doesn’t factor in the multiple flights to EY, our practically mandatory visit during the year, and the exorbitant amount of spending money.
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amother
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 5:24 pm
| amother Orange wrote: | | This is insane. What are they doing during those 12+ years in school, if they aren't acquiring the BASICS of Judaism?!? |
They should be acquiring basics. Seminary is on a higher level. Why do boys needs extra years of learning?
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amother
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 5:28 pm
| amother Orange wrote: | No, because they're not doing it in order to acquire the BASICS of Judaism. Or rather, I really hope not. They doing what they were created to do, learning Torah on a deep level. Girls were not created for that.
I think it's great to be able to take a year to learn on a deeper level. I just don't think parents should have to bankrupt themselves to do it. I wish we could learn to just pay for what we can afford and not put ourselves into debt for things we don't really really need, which for 99% of girls is an expensive seminary year in Israel. |
Disagree, there are many brilliant girls out there. And even regular girls deserve extra time to appreciate Torah , just like the regular boys do.
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amother
Kiwi
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 5:33 pm
| amother Wandflower wrote: | | You could say the same about college. Yet many need or want extra training to be prepared for adult life. Elementary and HS are just the basics. |
College provides education tailored towards specific career fields. It's not "preparation for adult life" in and itself.
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amother
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 5:33 pm
| amother Wandflower wrote: | | They should be acquiring basics. Seminary is on a higher level. Why do boys needs extra years of learning? |
They don’t more than girls do. They should be taught to incorporate Torah into real life. Just like girls should. I think all seminary girls and yeshiva boys should have a few hours open in the day where they work to at least pay for their own spending money.
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amother
Freesia
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 5:34 pm
| amother NeonBlue wrote: | | I do love how everyone is using 25K as some sort of guide post when we’re spending north of 30K for seminary tuition this year. That doesn’t factor in the multiple flights to EY, our practically mandatory visit during the year, and the exorbitant amount of spending money. |
You don’t have to visit, you don’t have to bring her home for pesach, and she can earn money for her own spending money. If you want to do those things great but it’s 100% doable without.
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amother
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 5:55 pm
| amother Kiwi wrote: | | College provides education tailored towards specific career fields. It's not "preparation for adult life" in and itself. |
Oh wow, this is not true at all!!! This describes vocational schools, not college.
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amother
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 6:32 pm
| amother Freesia wrote: | | You don’t have to visit, you don’t have to bring her home for pesach, and she can earn money for her own spending money. If you want to do those things great but it’s 100% doable without. |
Friends of ours calculated this past year that with just the basics like seminary tuition (over 30k) plus health insurance, wardrobe that meets the dress code, basic toiletries and essentials she needs to bring, basic spending money-not over the top, they'll easily be paying close to 40,000 if not more by the time all is done.
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amother
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Fri, Jun 28 2024, 6:35 pm
| amother Pink wrote: | | Friends of ours calculated this past year that with just the basics like seminary tuition (over 30k) plus health insurance, wardrobe that meets the dress code, basic toiletries and essentials she needs to bring, basic spending money-not over the top, they'll easily be paying close to 40,000 if not more by the time all is done. |
Why so much money?
My son just came back, medical insurance - meuchedet - was under $50 a month. They got around $200 a month spending money. Clothing and toiletries you would buy in any case.
What am I missing here?
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shabbatiscoming
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Sat, Jun 29 2024, 2:28 pm
| amother NeonBlue wrote: | | I do love how everyone is using 25K as some sort of guide post when we’re spending north of 30K for seminary tuition this year. That doesn’t factor in the multiple flights to EY, our practically mandatory visit during the year, and the exorbitant amount of spending money. |
Im sorry, none of this is required. No sem girl or yeshiva boy has to go home for pesach. No parents have to vist. And spending money? There is a minimum or alimit to that too.
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shabbatiscoming
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Sat, Jun 29 2024, 2:29 pm
| amother Wandflower wrote: | | You could say the same about college. Yet many need or want extra training to be prepared for adult life. Elementary and HS are just the basics. |
Extra training? No, collrge or uni is to hopefully learn a profession to help people pay for LIFE. Not to gey "extra training". 
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amother
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Sat, Jun 29 2024, 6:30 pm
| amother Wandflower wrote: | | Disagree, there are many brilliant girls out there. And even regular girls deserve extra time to appreciate Torah , just like the regular boys do. |
The tafkid of a girl is not to learn Torah on a deep level. Sure, she can do that if she's brilliant and wants to, and sure it's nice for girls to have extra time to appreciate Torah but it's not a chiyuv for them and that's not what she was created for. It's a chiyuv for men. That's why boys should get as many extra years as they want to learn Torah in depth, while it's not necessary for girls.
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