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Forum
-> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
-> Seminary Info
amother
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 Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:30 pm
I see this on a lot of threads. Seminary is such a terrible waste of money, a real luxury, how could it have become standard.
It's not right for everyone, but I do not think sem is a luxury at all!
Think about it. Girls go through high school and have to do so legally. They are forced go to class, do the work, and pass to get a high school diploma.
Without seminary, afterwards they will be forced to go full-time into parnasa, either working or going to college.
Some girls want that, and good for them. Nobody should be pressured to go to seminary.
But other girls would benefit from having one year to learn for its own sake. To live away from home but in a structured environment, with other girls. To get to see a new place, meet inspiring role models, and have some time to think about what type of life they want to build for themselves.
That's not a luxury. It's a very helpful transition phase from high school student to independent adult.
Sure you can survive without seminary, but the definition of luxury is not "anything not absolutely essential for survival."
There may be specific seminaries that are more expensive, but the general framework (a dorm, more freedom than high school, choosing to learn without a diploma threat) is not a luxury at all.
Additionally this "sem is a luxury" attitude is very chauvinist. Boys finish high school and are not told immediately to go to work. They go to several years of very expensive Beis Medrash. Even outside of the super charedi community a "gap year" of learning for boys is standard.
People complain about the $20K price tag of seminary, but DS is in yet another year of Beis Medrash in the USA with a sticker price of $25K and nobody tells me that I should stop getting tuition assistance since I have a 19yo in such an expensive school (I don't even think his is the most expensive).
But if I give DD that one year of seminary, I obviously have messed up priorities and should not be getting any breaks.
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amother
Stone
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:34 pm
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. Very nice points and all but still a luxury
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amother
Bluebonnet
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:40 pm
It's still a luxury, and extra, despite all those points you mentioned. Especially seminary in Israel. There are local options.
Your son's 25K yeshiva is also a luxury.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:41 pm
Definitely a luxury. I loved Seminary, learned a lot, had a great experience, gave a "foundation" for life ahead, etc, really immersed myself, but at the end of the day it is a very expensive-not-extremely-necessary extra.
When life hits you there's very little that seminary did for you in hindsight.
Yes, the $25k school you're sending your son to is probably also a luxury.
There are other options.
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amother
Hawthorn
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:41 pm
Eh, still sounds like a luxury.
(I went through the BY system didnt have a money tree for seminary)
You don't have to get As in high school you can enjoy the work for what it is
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amother
Daisy
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:42 pm
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(What type of yeshivas are $25k?)
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amother
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:42 pm
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My mother went to a half day program and started college right away. A few of my Bucharian friends went straight to college and did some learning classes on the side. Nobody suffered as a result. Some girls need it yes. But it's not for everyone. It did nothing for my sisters. I dont know if it did anything for me. Girls who have questions that high school didn't answer might benefit from the right seminary. But the cost is insane. Unless the girl plans to be a teacher, it's a bit much.
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isrmss91
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 9:43 pm
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Plenty of girls want to go to Seminary and can't afford it. They still do fine, even if they don't go...hence, it is a luxury.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 10:06 pm
Many luxuries provide a long term benefit. Having the funds for a private chef will keep me healthy, does that mean it is no longer a luxury? Having a pool in my backyard will enable me to have great exercise which has both physical and mental health benefits. Does that mean it is not a luxury?
Yes, there is a huge value in going to seminary and IMHO it is a Luxury.
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amother
Dustypink
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 10:11 pm
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It’s a luxury but very important for Israel’s economy. We should send to support Israel.
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mizle10
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 10:16 pm
How does any of that make it not a luxury? No one is saying there's no value to it.
I could sell you on the benefits of having cleaning help from here to tom, doesn't make it not a luxury.
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amother
Camellia
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 10:43 pm
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Definitely a luxary and not a necessity like summer camp. U are fortunate if you can afford it and go but it’s an extra
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amother
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 10:44 pm
Think about this - I am a working mom, singlehandedly running the house, taking care of all the kids and dealing with a couple of life challenges. I barely have time to breathe. If I would take a few months vacation and go rest and recuperate, it would restore my well-being both physically and emotionally. I would come back a new person.
Does that make a few months vacation to not be a luxury? Should I raise money/go into debt for this? Or should I rather come up with a more cost-effective sensible plan for self-care and R&R?
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amother
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 10:46 pm
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You make good points towards why we should send young women to seminary *if* you are able to afford it. But definitely a luxury.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 10:46 pm
Op, I agree with your statements, but its still a luxury.
However I very strongly agree with the chauvinistic nature.
I couldn't afford to send to Israeli seminary. Im choosing to send to a local Lakewood seminary. Total including the dorm is $19000 but FAFSA and state grants kick in some. So my total burden is $10,000.
Yes, I can save myself $10000 by making her go to work. But let's face it. Im perfectly happy to send my sons to 3-4 years of yeshiva (at 10k a year) after high school. Why am I so against giving my daughter that year of learning lshma.
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Ema of 5
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 10:46 pm
| amother OP wrote: | I see this on a lot of threads. Seminary is such a terrible waste of money, a real luxury, how could it have become standard.
It's not right for everyone, but I do not think sem is a luxury at all!
Think about it. Girls go through high school and have to do so legally. They are forced go to class, do the work, and pass to get a high school diploma.
Without seminary, afterwards they will be forced to go full-time into parnasa, either working or going to college.
Some girls want that, and good for them. Nobody should be pressured to go to seminary.
But other girls would benefit from having one year to learn for its own sake. To live away from home but in a structured environment, with other girls. To get to see a new place, meet inspiring role models, and have some time to think about what type of life they want to build for themselves.
That's not a luxury. It's a very helpful transition phase from high school student to independent adult.
Sure you can survive without seminary, but the definition of luxury is not "anything not absolutely essential for survival."
There may be specific seminaries that are more expensive, but the general framework (a dorm, more freedom than high school, choosing to learn without a diploma threat) is not a luxury at all.
Additionally this "sem is a luxury" attitude is very chauvinist. Boys finish high school and are not told immediately to go to work. They go to several years of very expensive Beis Medrash. Even outside of the super charedi community a "gap year" of learning for boys is standard.
People complain about the $20K price tag of seminary, but DS is in yet another year of Beis Medrash in the USA with a sticker price of $25K and nobody tells me that I should stop getting tuition assistance since I have a 19yo in such an expensive school (I don't even think his is the most expensive).
But if I give DD that one year of seminary, I obviously have messed up priorities and should not be getting any breaks. |
They don’t have to go halfway around the world though. There are Canadian seminaries, American seminaries, English seminaries…. Maybe more that I don’t know about? And I’m pretty sure $25k isn’t mandatory either, and there are other options.
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Ema of 5
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 10:49 pm
| amother Dustypink wrote: | | It’s a luxury but very important for Israel’s economy. We should send to support Israel. |
People should not go into debt to support something they can’t afford. If parents feel that their daughter would benefit from seminary, they should find affordable options.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 10:55 pm
| amother OP wrote: |
It's a very helpful transition phase from high school student to independent adult.
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I want to call this out - I disagree fully with this. If anything, seminary delays the transition phase for a year. The girls don't have much independence. It's another year of school, albeit outside of the framework of home. It's still a tightly controlled framework with few advances into the responsibilities of adulthood.
I see this first-hand with my daughters grade now. The girls just came home from seminary. You can pick out the girls who didn't go to seminary so very easily. They're more mature, have established jobs or college paths and are carrying various adult responsibilities. The girls just home from seminary still come across as school girls. There isn't much difference between them and the current 12th graders. They are only now going to start doing what the other girls did the past year - start the transition into adulthood.
I would classify seminary more as a sabbatical year than a year of transitional phase.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 11:00 pm
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The question is, why is it a luxury for girls to learn for one year, but it's a necessity for boys to learn for several years, including after they're married. Why is the spiritual health of our girls viewed as optional, and the spiritual health of our boys is mandatory?
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amother
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Thu, Jun 27 2024, 11:03 pm
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Seminary is like a year of overnight camp. How we supported this idea for so long I have no idea.
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