By collecting tzedaka you're raising everyone's standards!

amother

Hotpink

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 9:55 am

I kind of agree with op but I think she’s taking it a little extreme
I do think op should have taken the YT clothing, and any vouchers offered to rabbeim. Your family definitely qualifies and deserves it.

My situation- my DH who is a community rabbi OOT opened a kollel in his shul.
we are empty nesters, meaning we don’t have expenses that families have
I live in an apartment building

Once between Yom Kippur and Sukkot I get home and outside my door is a huge (maybe 15lbs) raw frozen brisket. With a note from an organization that’s meant for Kollel families.
I called the organization thanked them and told them that B”H we have more than enough. The person on the line said it’s our way to say thank you for all the Kollelim do for the community.
Since B”H I don’t need I gave it to a Kollel family that could use it. I felt funny taking it.
But the person of the organization said clearly it’s a Thank You. I felt funny because DH is not an Avrech.

The Kollel Avrechim also get to order food in bulk Yom Tov time at a deep discount. Same organization.
Another organization helps them sign up for government help if

That’s just my take.

amother

Amethyst

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 10:04 am

amother Mocha wrote:

I have a sibling that doesn't have success in parnassa. Its debatable whether he ever gave it an honest try but that is not the point here.
His kids live a much more luxurious life than my kids do. They all go to camp, they go to extra curricular clubs, they have all the programs, get free Jewish store clothes, they get amazing food packages for Yom tov, and they beautiful simchos.
We don't get things for free, we have what we can afford.
I'm not resentful but these aren't necessities, that are luxuries.

Never heard of this and I live in the tri state area..
I know plenty of kids that are not going to camp due to funds...who is funding your nieces and nephews? besides YT food (which is often not free, just subsidized, like chasdei lev)
who is making your brother beautiful Simchos?
never heard of an organization that does that for families that are struggling..
usually families that struggle with parnassa....struggle...

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 10:07 am

lamplighter wrote:

This is a discussion my friends and I have had many times. When the tzedaka organizations give vouchers for free clothing at local boutique stores that only the wealthy can afford, or expensive chol hamoed trips or hand out tons of meat and salmon, they are raising the standard of living. If this is what the poor are receiving then the standard for everyone else was raised a bunch of notches. Then kids are asking for what everyone else has and the truth is that the wealthy has these things and the poor have these things and the middle class is struggling to keep up.

This is exactly what I meant.

amother

Babypink ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 10:55 am

amother Impatiens wrote:

I’m curious what you thought were luxuries.

3 sheitels, 3 sets of luxury linen, a Bosch - I know Many many people who did not get married with them. More high end appliances, shabbos dishes/ cutlery - I know many people don't get shabbos dishes right away and usually use their gift cards for them. and fancy Mikasa cutlery that people don't usually buy right away. And probably many more things. And I know someone who got all of these through a tzedaka organization.
Don't tell me "they last longer" you don't need the expensive Mikasa cutlery or the expensive dishes to last longer. And sheitels right away when your trying to make sure they all fit "right"

amother

Daphne

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 10:55 am

Quote:

A home does not have to be difficult in order for camp to be a necessity.
The biggest example I can think of is for a teenage boy. Please don't say that he can get a job in a day camp as a counselor because he will have nothing to do from 4 pm until midnight. It is crucial that a teenage boy be sent to a wholesome environment where he will be gainfully busy in a kosher way.
Yes, this is a necessity that sometimes requires parents to raise the money.

It's 100% a mindset. My boys never went to sleep away camp. My boys worked in day camps. They organized a learning chabura or chavrusas with friends in the evening and then the friends hung out (usually in my house) for a couple hours. I'd say my boys were busy from shacharis through maariv.

These boys are healthy well rounded yeshiva boys. Now 2 of my sons are in beis medresh. One still will be working in a local camp 2nd half and the other will be in a learning program (not camp--he is in Israel and not coming home bein hazmanim) connected to his yeshiva.

As both my husband and I work full time, I will say until they can work, day camp is a necessity. There are local day camps until 9th grade for boys in my area. Until middle school for girls (and then many work).

amother

↑ Babypink ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 10:59 am

amother NeonPink wrote:

Below is an excerpt, from Mishpacha Magazine 20th Anniversary Edition - Article by R' Shmuli Margulies, on this topic

"I was zoche to hear from Rav Wosner, zt’l, that not since Matan Torah has there been so much
tzedakah v’chesed in the world. But as we are all well aware, there are never enough funds to
meet the growing needs despite the abundance of Chinese auctions, dinners, crowdfunding
appeals, and the potpourri of “-a-thons” – walk-a-thons, shteig-a-thons, marathons,
shas-a-thons, phone-a-thons – which fill our schedules week after week.

However, with the increase in tzedakah funds distributed, there's a corresponding increase in
reliance and dependency. Too many people in our communities still find their finances spiraling
out of control despite (dare I say because of?) the growing amounts of tzedakah being raised
and distributed over the past 20 years. In recognition of this issue, numerous organizations have
in recent years begun guiding families toward achieving financial independence. There is
definitely an increased awareness and openness to go beyond the comfort zone and get
helped. Those who courageously take the step forward to be coached experience life-changing
improvements – not only in their finances – but also in their shalom bayis, upbringing of
children, simchas chayim, physical and emotional health, and so much more."

I'm married almost a year, and we went to the "key program" from RSK to help us sort our finances BEFORE we have kids so that we can save for all the expenses that will come later on iy"h, and/or loss of job or unexpected expenses.
That is being proactive and hopefully the best way to avoid needing tzedaka in the first place.
I really recommend people signing to such programs, even if they're married and with kids. To help budget and plan for the future

amother

↑ Mocha

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 11:03 am

amother Amethyst wrote:

I have no idea who's funding it. Its definitely not family, none of us are able to.
They are "dysfunctional poor" and they get tons of help. It may not be an organization, it may be private tzedaka but it is absolutely not my brother paying for this stuff.

amother

↑ Hawthorn

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 11:04 am

amother Crystal wrote:

I really think this kind of thinking is emPHASizing the wrong syLLABLE.

The reason the chesed organization is buying them all these things is so that they shouldn't be embarrassed, that they shouldn't stand out as the only ones not having what their friends are getting. And I think this is important- dignity can be more important, in a certain sense, than a physical need.

The real question is why the standards are do high for everyone making it unaffordable for anybody who is not wealthy.

I think that many Chassidish communities have addressed this, by making takanos etc. I'm not sure how well that's working, though...

Oh I just saw this thread !

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....66282

There are plenty very nice sets that are not comparable to the sticker price of Italian furniture.
That is a luxury.
X amount of money towards furniture would be fine too and if they have more $, they themselves can add to it

↑ Chayalle ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 11:07 am

amother Babypink wrote:

I know for example that TDL in Lakewood does not give this. They give one sheitel (not the basic package where you pay - this is only if you qualify) and it has a price limit, only at TDL sheitel macher. They give two sets of linen. No Bosch. They give milchig and fleishig dishes - basic, like correlle and equivalent - and regular nice cutlery.

amother

↑ Babypink ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 11:59 am

Chayalle wrote:

I don't know what TDL is, but from what another poster said, obviously they don't want to feel like they have the "nebby" clothes and things. So they need to be "up to date" and in style. Which I 100% understand. But there still needs to be a limit like the 4th shabbos dress, and the shabbos dishes AND shabbos cutlery which is an extra - At least for all my friends and cousins who are "normal, with it", and yes, can probably afford it but it's just not something that is done.
So the ones that accept through these organizations, end up "coming out ahead" and that's where people get frustrated with all the tzedkah collecting.

amother

Cyan

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 12:09 pm

This is interesting to me right now.
I have a child in critical condition in the oncology ward right now. There are so many organizations offering help and I keep saying, we don't live that way, we don't need (fill in the blank - takeout for supper, 3 new outfits for yomtov, a spa day etc). People think I'm crazy but why should I take my standard of living higher? It's just going to make me chinuch issues in the long run. For sure it's a help to send supper - basic pizza is more than a treat for my kids, I don't need the french fries and sweet drinks to go with. For sure it's a help to give vouchers for clothes for yomtov - one each is more than enough. For sure I need time out - send me a babysitter, I don't need a spa. etc etc.

The thing I see is that first of all the people setting up the tzedakas, the baalei tzedaka often live that way themselves and they want us to have the best and that's very nice and very generous. But also how they say - you need to feel spoiled because you're having a hard time. For each person spoiled is something else. For me spoiled is send me cleaning help. For someone else spoiled means send me to a 5 star hotel for Shabbos. Because they're dealing with so many people, they can't tailor make the options so they give everyone the same. So it's averaging out to an unbalanced place.

↑ Chayalle

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 12:10 pm

amother Babypink wrote:

Tiferes Devorah L'Kallah - Lakewood's Hachnasas Kallah organization. What they give is not nebby, but it's basic setup, not extra luxuries.
I agree about limits.

amother

↑ Babypink ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 12:13 pm

amother Cyan wrote:

Very well said
Davening for your child for a speedy recovery.

amother

Nasturtium

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 12:30 pm

amother Mocha wrote:

That's very sad, but I know families like that and believe you me your kids are way more emotionally healthy than theirs.
It is absolutely terrible for kids who's parents are "dysfunctional poor"- they know and can sense it

amother

↑ Maize ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 12:40 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Tiferes Devorah L'Kallah - Lakewood's Hachnasas Kallah organization. What they give is not nebby, but it's basic setup, not extra luxuries.
I agree about limits.

Sounds like a great organization. And I too agree with limits. I think a good measure would be is to assess the impact on the middle class. If whatever you're doing to the current poor will designate the middle class as the new poor, then you need to reconsider.

(This is for society as a whole, and not for individuals with unique circumstances.)

amother

Freesia ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:08 pm

I know someone who got everything from more than one organization. So she took a Bosch from one, a KitchenAid from the other, etc. I got married with none, and almost 9 years later I still have none. I use a cheap hand mixer. Same with food processor etc. when I heard how she "milked the system" it left me with a very bad taste. Technically I probably could have gotten from an organization. My father learns and my parents are always tight because officially they make too much to qualify for any government help. I paid for a lot of my own stuff when getting married. I was upset to hear how people use the organizations to get their hands on whatever they could

amother

↑ Babypink

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 1:13 pm

amother Freesia wrote:

I know someone who got everything from more than one organization. So she took a Bosch from from, a KitchenAid from the other, etc. I got married with none, and almost 9 years later I still have none. I use a cheap hand mixer. Same with food processor etc. when I heard how she "milked the system" it left me with a very bad taste. Technically I probably could have gotten from an organization. My father learns and my parents are always tight because officially they make too much to qualify for any government help. I paid for a lot of my own stuff when getting married. I was upset to hear how people use the organizations to get their hands on whatever they could

Right, and why do you need both???