By collecting tzedaka you're raising everyone's standards!

amother

Coffee

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 5:22 am

amother Rainbow wrote:

I hugged and liked your post because I agreed with what you said just not how you said it

My motto is, if someone is desperate enough to be “begging” for something, which the Torah recognizes as embarrassing (as do most people), then they obviously need it for whatever reason. It’s important enough to them that they are willing to ask for handouts or accept them. I have no issue helping someone who needs something that badly, even if I don’t understand why it’s important to them

The only tzedaka I have an issue with (and still donate to) are the countless campaigns for widows and their families. People, especially parents, need to start being responsible and getting life insurance. It drives me crazy that so many people are too irresponsible to plan for their death and instead rely on charity from their communities that could otherwise be going towards other organizations or families, ones that couldn’t have so easily prevented needing those funds

Um, taking care of a widow and an orphan is an actual mitzvah min hatorah. Many (most?) times people do have life insurance but it’s a drop in the bucket for people that are used to a comfortable lifestyle OR someone who struggled with Parnassah all along will not have life insurance- do you want to start a life insurance tzeddaka? Like with areivim it’s cheaper if we pay when someone actually needs it.

amother

NeonPink

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 5:31 am

Below is an excerpt, from Mishpacha Magazine 20th Anniversary Edition - Article by R' Shmuli Margulies, on this topic

"I was zoche to hear from Rav Wosner, zt’l, that not since Matan Torah has there been so much
tzedakah v’chesed in the world. But as we are all well aware, there are never enough funds to
meet the growing needs despite the abundance of Chinese auctions, dinners, crowdfunding
appeals, and the potpourri of “-a-thons” – walk-a-thons, shteig-a-thons, marathons,
shas-a-thons, phone-a-thons – which fill our schedules week after week.

However, with the increase in tzedakah funds distributed, there's a corresponding increase in
reliance and dependency. Too many people in our communities still find their finances spiraling
out of control despite (dare I say because of?) the growing amounts of tzedakah being raised
and distributed over the past 20 years. In recognition of this issue, numerous organizations have
in recent years begun guiding families toward achieving financial independence. There is
definitely an increased awareness and openness to go beyond the comfort zone and get
helped. Those who courageously take the step forward to be coached experience life-changing
improvements – not only in their finances – but also in their shalom bayis, upbringing of
children, simchas chayim, physical and emotional health, and so much more."

kenz

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 5:34 am

My family has had a very rough few years and what keeps us functioning as a happy family is taking at least one yearly trip where we just have fun and focus on each other and not all the hard stuff waiting at home. We don’t have a lot of money. No, I’m not asking for anyone to fund my trips but I have no doubt that some people would judge my actions and question how I could spend money on a frivolous vacation when money is so tight, etc. But it’s no one’s business how I choose to spend my money and it’s likely the same for many other people. MYOB.

amother

Impatiens

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 5:34 am

amother Burntblack wrote:

Agreed. A local hachnasas kallah organization has been sending out mailings and calling for donations . The mailing included the list of necessities they make sure that kallahs get.
MOST of the items on the list I did not purchase as a kallah on a budget because I considered them luxuries, not necessities. I was really surprised. Later that week my neighbor mentioned that she threw the pamphlets away real fast before her daughter in shidduchim would get ideas…

I’m curious what you thought were luxuries.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 5:35 am

lamplighter wrote:

This is a discussion my friends and I have had many times. When the tzedaka organizations give vouchers for free clothing at local boutique stores that only the wealthy can afford, or expensive chol hamoed trips or hand out tons of meat and salmon, they are raising the standard of living. If this is what the poor are receiving then the standard for everyone else was raised a bunch of notches. Then kids are asking for what everyone else has and the truth is that the wealthy has these things and the poor have these things and the middle class is struggling to keep up.

I don't live in the US but IMHO Rabbanim need to address this issue. The whole middle class is between a rock and a hard place.

amother

Tomato

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 5:57 am

amother OP wrote:

I really think tzedaka should be collected for necessities. Not luxuries. When you collect tzedaka for luxuries, they become necessities.

Here's what I mean:

I can't afford to send my kids to camp. It's fine. I fargin those who can afford it. I have one daughter who really could use it this year, mostly because nearly every one of her classmates are going. So I'm not sending any of my other kids to day camp, and doing round robins and camp Mommy to keep them all entertained. This way I can cover the cost of her overnight camp.

But there are so many "camp funds". They're not for kids in special difficult home situations who need to get away. They're for anyone who can't afford it, or claims they can't afford it. The camp funds only give a few hundred dollars generally, but just recently, someone called me and asked me to donate to help raise money to cover the entire cost of camp for a kid I know whose parents can't afford to send her. I felt like saying "okay, so her parents don't have the money, why does she need to go?" By raising money for so many kids, it becomes a "thing" that everyone needs to go.

Another example:

In my community they give out yom tov outfits to children of rebbeim and kollel. My husband is a Rebbe, so my kids asked me why we don't get. I told them that right now I can bh afford to buy everyone in the family one or two new outfits for yom tov, and we don't need to take. My daughter said "Oh, but Sara told me that she gets a few new outfits every season, and her mother takes one of these outfits for her to use as an extra one."

Great, so by raising tzedaka money, you have now raised the bar as far as how many outfits each girl needs.

These should be WANTS not NEEDS!

CAMP, SEMINARY, EXTRAVIGANT WEDDINGS......the list goes on and on.

One day soon I'm going to be asked to donate for pesach hotels for the nebach families who would otherwise stay home.

Didn’t read the whole thread but I want to say this - im a single mom receiving only a fraction of what I’m meant to get in child support from my ex

I’m struggling financially

There is an organization in my community that gives one yom tov outfit per child to families that are struggling financially. You need references to be eligible. Sukkos time was first time I needed this kind of help
And got a beautiful dress for my daughter

Pesach time, a family member gave me cash to spend on clothing for my kids. I could have easily gone to that organization to pick out additional outfits for my kids- but I didn’t because I didn’t want to use a resource
I did not need … just because some people take advantage of a system does not mean we should not create and sustain that system for others in need

amother

PlumPink ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:00 am

Not sure where all these people are getting help for camp? My husband is partially disabled and I need to work. We applied for help from a camp fund and didn't get approved, and I don't know of any others. We put it all on credit cards, I took on a side job which will help pay for PART of it, and I'm keeping my baby home all summer while I work and my two younger kids home second half while I work...and Hashem will do the rest, I hope, unless His plan is actually for us to go into debt.
But keeping my older sons home to entertain themselves all summer with minimal supervision? Not an option.

amother

Maize ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:03 am

amother Rainbow wrote:

The problem with this is that in some communities it becomes normalized to reach out to organizations. The embarrassment factor is then reduced.

I actually have the reverse thought as you. I have issues with the organizations providing luxuries as necessities but don't have issues with the lack of life insurance. Generally people don't have it because they can't afford it. Life is already so expensive and folks are struggling to make ends meet. Even a small term life insurance payment is not doable. When you are scrambling to put food on yhe table there isn't an extra dollar for much else. Lack of life insurance isn't about not being responsible, it's about our lifestyle not being affordable for the average family.

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:19 am

amother Rainbow wrote:

I hugged and liked your post because I agreed with what you said just not how you said it

My motto is, if they obviously need it for whatever reason. It’s important enough to them that they are willing to ask for handouts or accept them. I have no issue helping someone who needs something that badly, even if I don’t understand why it’s important to them

The only tzedaka I have an issue with (and still donate to) are the countless campaigns for widows and their families. People, especially parents, need to start being responsible and getting life insurance. It drives me crazy that so many people are too irresponsible to plan for their death and instead rely on charity from their communities that could otherwise be going towards other organizations or families, ones that couldn’t have so easily prevented needing those funds

I really liked the way you phrased it. 100% agree.
I think that the same people that do not have an issue accepting tzaddukah will usually be the same the people who use tzeddukah for non necessaries/luxuries,

Trademark ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:22 am

amother Stoneblue wrote:

We should close down all the organizations that provide extras!
Thank you for raising such an important issue.

I was in hospital recently with a relative and I was disgusted how there was a cheesed room with kosher food for me. Really I should have to be hungry or buy a granola bar in a vending machine. Now they are upping the standards and making people expect to eat real food that’s kosher in NY hospitals.

Also, chai lifeline’s camp simcha. Just disgusting. Sick children don’t need over the top camps. They just need medical care.

Chaveirim. Close that down. Normal people wait hours for AAA. If you can’t afford the time or money for AAA then you shouldn’t have a car. Chaveirim is upping the standards.

I think these two are different because they are a service type of organization, not necessarily for the poor or for people who don't have funds. Nothing to do with finances.

I consider it the decent thing to do, if you use their services, to give a donation.

amother

Hawthorn ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:25 am

amother OP wrote:

I remember by Chassidish cousins telling me they couldn't afford wedding and tzedaka covered. Yet, they had bought top of the line Italian furniture and had a completely set up apartment because 'necessity'.

We got married with no money. We had two beds and a nightstand in the apartment and a neighbor gave us an old couch and bookcase. It was by far not the nicest look or comfort for the used furniture yet was fine and we eventually replaced it many years later (with second hand and free alternatives)

Mind boggling to me that Italian furniture is/was necessity yet it's the norm in their circles.

Even our table and chairs we bought weeks later and super cheap

amother

Green ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:30 am

Trademark wrote:

It might be nice but it's not a requirement.
If I don't have the money for an $18 donation, I can still take the supper or whatever that Bikur Cholim offers while I'm in the hospital. In fact, they'd be horrified if I declined because I can't pay.
Same Hatzola. Chaveirim. Etc

Obviously I try to donate
But it's not required at all.

Chayalle ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:40 am

I think the issue is when Tzedakah/Chessed raises a family beyond their own standards.
In Lakewood, there's a Hachnasas Kallah organization that helps local Kallahs. You can get your basic apartment setup at cost price (we did this) or even for free if you qualify. And the stuff they give is very nice, but it is not designer or luxurious. It's nice and b'kavodik without being over-the-top. It may be difficult to afford all of that anyway for a family making a wedding, but still, I don't think we have to deprive Kallos for everyone's sake....
I remember once seeing a post on this site about someone who wanted to give a poor Chassan a lift, and bought him a pair of Ferragamo shoes. And while that may be a big Chessed, I wonder what happens when the guy needs his next pair, and Ferragamo is now his standard. Maybe it would be better to buy him, for the same money, a nice new complete wardrobe of basics - suit, tie, shoes, etc..? Why raise the bar for him by pushing YOUR values on someone else?

amother

Crystal ↓

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:45 am

amother Hawthorn wrote:

I really think this kind of thinking is emPHASizing the wrong syLLABLE.

The reason the chesed organization is buying them all these things is so that they shouldn't be embarrassed, that they shouldn't stand out as the only ones not having what their friends are getting. And I think this is important- dignity can be more important, in a certain sense, than a physical need.

The real question is why the standards are do high for everyone making it unaffordable for anybody who is not wealthy.

I think that many Chassidish communities have addressed this, by making takanos etc. I'm not sure how well that's working, though...

Oh I just saw this thread !

https://www.imamother.com/foru.....66282

amother

Saddlebrown

Wed, Jun 26 2024, 6:49 am

It's a tough call, I was previously on the receiving end and BH now we are at the giving end. I think about this all the time. It's a very tricky balance. While I agree that tzedakka can raise community standards, having been on the receiving end it was a lifeline for me. Tzedakka enabled me to save face and have a decent wedding. But I have to say with all the money I had gotten I still felt that I got less than other people and I still grew up at a severe disadvantage.. So well, it might look a little glitzy on the outside and on the brochures.. but when people grow up in poverty, even if they get a few fancy items life is still pretty tough and I'm glad to be able help them. Yes, they may have some nice clothes but the debt or the lack in other areas could be crushing. And if it makes the kids a little happy to have a little bit of a nice clothes or extra toy, or camp.. I am okay with that.
In terms of raising the standards of weddings, I do wonder about that because since so so many people get their wedding subsidized the standards definitely went up. However when I thought deeper into it. It's kind of a situation of what came first the chicken or the egg. did the standards get raised and therefore everyone has to keep up? Or did the charity raise the standards? I'm not so sure I am confident to say the ladder is 100% the catalyst.
I've never heard of Rav or a Torah source that discourage giving tzedakka money for this reason.. but yeah I hear you.. I would tell you to accept whatever you could accept if you need to and then give whatever you could give when you're able to give. This will lower the resentment and make it overall easier to deal with society because society is the way it is..