Those that are supposed to live simply, making fun of....

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amother

↑ Wheat ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:19 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

There is a true Jewish value called mistapkim be'muat.
That doesn't mean being poorly dressed but it also doesn't mean you *focus* to dress yourself and kids to the nine.
Being a Koppel wife and dripping in diamonds on a weekday and claiming 'it has nothing to do with Kollel' is just ridiculous. I don't buy it.

Show me where I said I'm dripping in diamonds????

Amalia ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:20 am

amother OP wrote:

I'm not blaming kollel.
But all of those neighbors that are mocking or think they're superior, happen to be kollel families.
It's just interesting that the kollel families on the block are the one's that are living an expensive lifestyle, and the working families are living a simple lifestyle. Yet they pride themselves in being better/more frum then us.

Dear OP,

I know exactly what you mean. We used to live in a yeshivish part of Passaic and experienced the same attitudes and their kids making fun of my kids for being Russian, for their father working a regular job (not Klei Kodesh or Kollel), for wearing “non jewish” clothes, for everything and anything. And yes, they absolutely do think and believe and say out loud to others they are superior. And no, it’s not just one family. (Of course, it comes from the adults and is being said out loud by their kids to other kids.)

What can I say? It’s really very very sad.

In our case, our two older kids grew up in that neighborhood: my daughter B”H is very securely integrated in the community but my son (who happens to be incredibly sensitive) has very painful memories from growing up in that neighborhood. He has a lot of (in my mind) justified anger towards those people. They made his childhood miserable. They caused him constant anguish. They never let up. (My oldest son and my daughter are vastly different in personality: whereas my daughter could shrug it off, my son never could. It wasn’t a matter of “comeback lines” or teaching them the right attitudes or values or whatever: some kids are just more sensitive and more vulnerable than others. It’s just a fact.)

We were able to move to a different neighborhood of Passaic/Clifton five years ago. What can I say? I am always grateful that my two younger kids are growing up in a more healthy environment. The kids in this neighborhood are just so much nicer. There is no mocking of anyone (as far as I know).

So, while I cannot give you good comeback lines (hopefully someone else here will), I can validate your and your daughters’ experience and your description of the situation. It’s not just “your insecurity”, it’s not you being judgemental of your neighbors and their lifestyle. This is real reality as it exists currently in the frum world, at least in Passaic/Clifton, where we live.

Last edited by Amalia on Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Wheat

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:21 am

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

Worse. Cashing in on tzedaka funds because your in kollel.
Op tell your kids to answer back well I paid in full for my clothes. You didn't.

Comments like these are painful. Ho many kollel familes do you know who are living on handouts? I know almost non. Grandparents chip in here or there, otherwise we mostly support ourselves thank you.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:22 am

amother Jetblack wrote:

Not suddenly. Have you read my post? I don't consider kollel life as more elite.
These girls are bullies plain and simple and will just use anything as leverage. Nothing to do with kollel

It definitely has do to with Kollel and what kind of behaviour is befitting girls from a Kollel family which should be heavily focused on Torah and chinuch!

Cookin4days

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:22 am

This thread is spiraling ..

“Hi dear neighbor I would appreciate it if you could talk to your girls, seems like they’re mocking mine bcs of where I shop for them. Really hurtful. Also, just bcs my husband isn’t learning in kollel doesn’t make us less frum yada yada” last part you can leave our

amother

DarkKhaki

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:23 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

I really don't agree with you.

I know children of VERY wealthy parents who buy them huge expensive houses and support a very lavish lifestyle. They don't need to work a day in their life. Happens to be, they chose to leave learning and go to work as that was kind of expected of them.

People like them would get just as much schar as a regular kollel person if they learn full-day. Maybe even more because that isn't their upbringing, it would be their own lifestyle choice.

They certainly wouldn't be expected to downgrade their lifestyle in order to immerse themselves in Torah learning.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:26 am

Amalia wrote:

Dear OP,

I know exactly what you mean. We used to live in a yeshivish part of Passaic and experienced the same attitudes and same kids making fun of my kids for being Russian, for their father working a regular job (not Klei Kodesh or Kollel), for everything and anything. And yes, they absolutely do think and believe and say out loud to others they are superior. And no, it’s not just one family. (Of course, it comes from the adults and is being said out loud by their kids to other kids.)

What can I say? It’s really very very sad.

In our case, our two older kids grew up in that neighborhood: my daughter is very securely frum but my son (who happens to be incredibly sensitive) has very painful memories from growing up in that neighborhood. He has a lot of (in my mind) justified anger towards those people. They made his childhood miserable. They caused him constant anguish. They never let up. (My oldest son and my daughter are vastly different in personality: whereas my daughter could shrug it off, my son never could. It wasn’t a matter of “comeback lines” or teaching them the right attitudes or values or whatever: some kids are just more sensitive than others. It’s just a fact.)

We were able to move to a different neighborhood of Passaic/Clifton five years ago. What can I say? I am always grateful that my two younger kids are growing up in a more healthy environment. The kids in this neighborhood are just so much nicer. There is no mocking of anyone.

So, while I cannot give you good comeback lines (hopefully someone else here will), I can validate your and your daughters’ experience and your description of the situation. It’s not just “your insecurity”, it’s not you being judgemental of your neighbors and their lifestyle. This is real reality as it is currently in the frum world, at least in Passaic/Clifton, where we live.

It's not only sad. It's a *major failure* if kollel families aren't fostering their kids that *with a higher standard comes responsibility*!

amother

↑ Lightpink ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:30 am

amother DarkKhaki wrote:

You're talking about an outlier group. It is not reflective of society as a whole. These one-off situations don't set the barometer for the rest of society.

These outlier groups have different bar that they're measured against as circumstances dictate it as such. For the rest of us, the concept of mistapkim b'miut is very much applicable.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:32 am

amother DarkKhaki wrote:

There are lifestyles and then they are lifestyles.
I didn't say to deprive anybody.
One can focus on gashmiout and one can focus on ruchniout. But you CANNOT focus on both it the same time. Your 1st priority can only be *one* not both of them.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:35 am

amother Wheat wrote:

Show me where I said I'm dripping in diamonds????

You're not. I said it in am earlier post Smile

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:36 am

Cookin4days wrote:

I would take it directly with her daughters.

amother

↑ Lightpink

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:37 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

Agree with this. Only one can be the main priority. It's either Torah learning and you wrap your gashmius around the Torah learning or it's gashmiyus and you wrap your Torah learning around the gashmiyus.

↑ Amalia

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:41 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

It's not only sad. It's a *major failure* if kollel families aren't fostering their kids that *with a higher standard comes responsibility*!

After years of living in that neighborhood and after our experiences as described in my post, I am not at all sure that I am willing to swallow the attitude that theirs is a higher standard.

P.S. I want to make it clear that the families whose kids made my oldest son miserable really do live the “simple” lifestyle.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:43 am

amother Sage wrote:

Curious how these conversations even start. What are your kids saying about your life? Just out of the blue they walked up and said this? Sounds like my tatty’s truck is bigger than yours. How old are these kids?

We all know it starts with what parents focus on.

amother

↑ Sage

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:45 am

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

We all know it starts with what parents focus on.

Yes but I’m asking if op’s kids are also busy with my family is this that and the other. My kids never have such conversations with friends. I can’t even fathom why or how this would come up.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:47 am

amother Sage wrote:

It's the other kids that usually start those conversations. They talk about where their clothes are or what brands their clothes are and ask the other girls where their clothes are from, and then the mocking starts. We are so not in to brands, my kids don't know brands and expensive clothing.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:48 am

Amalia wrote:

So they can call themselves a kollel family but they lack the middos and the pnimiout of the Torah.
They will be judged far harsher than the non-kollel families after 120.

amother

↑ OP

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:49 am

amother Sage wrote:

Yes but I’m asking if op’s kids are also busy with my family is this that and the other. My kids never have such conversations with friends. I can’t even fathom why or how this would come up.

No, they are not.
It's generally the other kids that start such conversations.
My kids don't hear from their parents that other family are less frum then us. They hear from their parents that hashem loves all jews.

amother

↑ NeonGreen

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:50 am

Any place where you find elitism you will find bullying.
It's very difficult to inculcate self pride without inculcating elitism at the same time. That's where the privileged piece comes in. If you teach your children that they are privileged to be (fill in the gap - Jewish, kollel etc etc) then they can take it one of two ways. Either by looking down on people who are "less privileged" or by shouldering the burden of a higher calling.
It's up to each family how they bring up their kids.

I would venture to say that these families making fun of your daughter actually have a lurking inferiority complex where they are not sure they are doing the right thing (or know they are not) and they are justifying themselves by making fun of anyone who isn't the same as them.

I moved my kids to a different school because of the elitism in the first school. Not because my kids were being bullied - they weren't - but because they were learning to look down on another tzelem Elokim and that to me is unacceptable.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 9:53 am

amother Wheat wrote:

This is very black and white thinking.

It's not black and white thinking. It's a fact.
With the position comes responsibility whether you like it or not.

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