Those that are supposed to live simply, making fun of....

amother

↑ Wheat ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:07 pm

amother OP wrote:

I am not pinning any blame on kollel communities as whole.
If you read my posts, you'd see that I'm talking about my neighbors. That the neighbors that are mocking & think they're superior, all happen to be kollel families.
This doesn't mean that I'm pinning the blame of kollel communities as whole. Though it is something to think about what's going on in certain circles.

I'm not responding to you specifically, more to the posters who seem to have taken this thread as a new place to share their hatred for kollel families who 'get free stuff as they saw on imamother'.
I'm sorry your kids are getting bullied. I hear why you think this is double standards.
I just want to point one thing out. Living a kollel life doesn't have to mean living a simple life, it means living according to your means. If this mother works as I do and earnes enough money to outfit her kids in nice cloths as I do, it has nothing to do with kollel life.
These girls are bullies, deal with this part first instead of focusing where they're coming from.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:08 pm

amother Jetblack wrote:

No, because being a kollel family (which I am) is not a "lifestyle" nor is it a "responsibility" nor is it an "elite".
It is a BRACHA which I appreciate every day that my husband can learn. Hashem gave ME the Torah at Har Sinai and I have every right for MY husband to sit and learn whether you judge us well or not (and the judgement will simply look bad for YOU after 120).
You did not give me the Torah. Hashem did. You do not get to decide whether my husband is allowed to learn or not. Period.

You're barking up the wrong tree.
I totally agree it's a bracha!
It's a lifestyle and yes, Torah scholars *are* the elite. And with this comes a responsibility too. People will hold you in high esteem and judge you harsher too (HaShem medakdek I'm tzadikim, right?)

amother

↑ OP ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:09 pm

amother Wheat wrote:

Part of their bullying is that "my mother and father said that we are more frum than you because your father does not learn in kollel"

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:09 pm

Comptroller wrote:

It's not about meddling in what you or your family are wearing. This thread is about kollel-girls mocking other girls because they do NOT have the newest dress.

I don't think that this kind of behavior aligns with kollel values, but maybe that's just me. What do I know?

In addition to being about girls from Kollel families who displayed bad middos (which does not align with Torah values of ANY kind), there was a certain judgement about what Kollel lifestyle should be like. Some of us are saying there is no such gold standard. There are different types of Kollel people and not everyone has the same Hashkafa.

amother

↑ Lightpink ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:12 pm

amother Jetblack wrote:

You're confused here- the reason people were upset is because
1. OP said that kollel families are "Supposed" to be simpler. Because for some reason she thinks she decides what every frum jew is "Supposed" to do. Maybe she got smicha or something and is now the gadol hador?
2. She continuously brought up kollel instead of the bullies.

I get the Kollel component. It's society in general, not individual families though. We promote it as the elite Torah path. We continuously raise funds from society to support many kollel members. We offer help and assistance that are exclusive to kollel families, etc. All of this is done in the name that kollel members are sacrificing in the name of the Torah, and therefore society is responsible to support them.

So when you watch some kollel families rubbing it in your face and living large, it creates questions. We aren't talking about select individuals who come from wealthy families. We are talking about average families who live large (or appear to live large) and are heavily engrossed in gashmiyus activities.

It has nothing to do with their actual status. There are those kollel members who BH are comfortable but live in a quiet discreet manner, or aren't heavily engrossed in gashmiyus. These are the folks living the true Torah life. But there are a number of kollel families who display a life of chasing after gashmiyus while propping themselves up with their kollel status. Those are the ones I find very off putting.

If you wear the hat of elitism, then you can't play it both ways.

amother

↑ Wheat ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:12 pm

amother OP wrote:

Part of their bullying is that "my mother and father said that we are more frum than you because your father does not learn in kollel"

So these kids get it from their parents.
They're probably the entitled supported ones who ruin the good reputation of honest and erliche kolle leit and their families.
I'm sorry this is happening OP, doesn't sound like there are any parents you can speak to.
Are their other neighbors your kids can play with? I'd tell them to avoid these families as much as possible because anyway you're not frum enough for them.

amother

↑ Jetblack ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:12 pm

Comptroller wrote:

But kollel families pride themselves so much in being kollel. OP said that those kollel girls often told her girls they were frummer than them.

And suddenly, kollel = any frum family??? Really???

Not suddenly. Have you read my post? I don't consider kollel life as more elite.
These girls are bullies plain and simple and will just use anything as leverage. Nothing to do with kollel

amother

↑ Sage ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:13 pm

amother OP wrote:

Part of their bullying is that "my mother and father said that we are more frum than you because your father does not learn in kollel"

Curious how these conversations even start. What are your kids saying about your life? Just out of the blue they walked up and said this? Sounds like my tatty’s truck is bigger than yours. How old are these kids?

amother

↑ Jetblack

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:13 pm

amother Lightpink wrote:

Why don't you read all my posts before responding to me?

amother

↑ Lightpink ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:13 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Agree. But regardless of hashkafah, any lifestyle that is heavily engrossed in gashmiyus isn't a Torahdig one. So all the more pronounced when it's a kollel member doing so.

↑ Bnei Berak 10 ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:15 pm

amother Wheat wrote:

There is a true Jewish value called mistapkim be'muat.
That doesn't mean being poorly dressed but it also doesn't mean you *focus* to dress yourself and kids to the nine.
Being a Koppel wife and dripping in diamonds on a weekday and claiming 'it has nothing to do with Kollel' is just ridiculous. I don't buy it.

amother

Saddlebrown

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:16 pm

Bnei Berak 10 wrote:

I usually agree with 99% of what you posted but IMHO kollel people are supposed to let their hashkafah be reflected in their life style. To be dripping in diamonds on a weekday for no special reason and claim one lives a true kollel life-sorry, but I don't buy it.

Worse. Cashing in on tzedaka funds because your in kollel.
Op tell your kids to answer back well I paid in full for my clothes. You didn't.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:16 pm

amother OP wrote:

OP, I read the title of your post. It definitely makes you sound like you are addressing all those who are part of the Kollel community as a whole, and how they are supposed to live, according to you.

I get that this is coming from personal pain - your kids being bullied. And in fact, you have received rude comments yourself - that have me flabbergasted.

To the mother whose kids are worth more than H&M....aaah...but it's my kids' worth in the world to come that matters most to me. More than the price of any designer sneakers on this world..

amother

↑ Sage ↓

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:17 pm

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

Worse. Cashing in on tzedaka funds because your in kollel.
Op tell your kids to answer back well I paid in full for my clothes. You didn't.

You don’t know that and teaching your kids bad middos too just creates more bad middos all around. Not really a solution.

↑ Chayalle

Mon, Jun 24 2024, 12:18 pm

amother Saddlebrown wrote:

Worse. Cashing in on tzedaka funds because your in kollel.
Op tell your kids to answer back well I paid in full for my clothes. You didn't.

I also paid in full for my clothes, and likely so did these people. Not everyone in Kollel is living on tzedaka funds.