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Forum
-> Vacation and Traveling
amother
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 Thu, Jun 20 2024, 12:06 am
Are Vegan restaurants ok to eat at without a Hechsher for some people?
Curious why it’s ok? Is it that there aren’t any non-kosher meat, fish or dairy products there?
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amother
Brickred
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 12:11 am
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I don't get it. Even if there's no animal products, I'd think fruits and veggies still need to be checked. Especially leafy greens which are known to be infested depending on the season. I'm open to hearing other minhagim though.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 12:12 am
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Not as far as I know. Anyone who does it at them imo is not keeping kosher.
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thriver
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 12:14 am
Not okay. Bishul akum. Bugs in salad.
People eat there because they don’t know better.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 12:17 am
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So many kashrus issues. Anyone who eats there is not keeping kosher.
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amother
Garnet
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 12:20 am
| thriver wrote: | Not okay. Bishul akum. Bugs in salad.
People eat there because they don’t know better. |
This.
People who aren't knowledgeable about the intricacies of kashrus think that they're avoiding the big issues of pork, shellfish, and mixing milk and meat by eating vegan. Obviously there are still major issues as mentioned in the quoted post. There are also issues of non kosher wines or wine vinegars used in marinades, sauces, or salad dressings.
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amother
Aquamarine
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 12:22 am
Bugs
Bishul Akum
Equipment that may have been used for treif and not kashered
Yayin Nesach (wine or wine vinegar)
Ingredients without hechsherim, some processed on equipment used for treif
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LovesHashem
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 12:35 am
Even canola oil can be trief. The way these items are processed and made are not simple at all.
Most people who eat at these places just don't care.
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amother
Blonde
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:00 am
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tichellady
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 1:03 am
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There are different opinions about how and when one can eat in a restaurant that isn’t kosher. I would say most would say not ok but there are rabbis with different opinions - but no one will say you can order anything- there will be rules about bishul akum, wine etc
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amother
Oldlace
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 2:12 am
| tichellady wrote: | | There are different opinions about how and when one can eat in a restaurant that isn’t kosher. I would say most would say not ok but there are rabbis with different opinions - but no one will say you can order anything- there will be rules about bishul akum, wine etc |
Please name a Rabbi
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amother
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 4:52 am
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Interesting, I was wondering cuz some were saying their family members eat there but then I wonder are they machmir about kashrus in general or not…
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notshanarishona
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 4:53 am
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It’s not kosher (unless you are having a coke and a non cut up fruit). People make all sorts of justifications but it’s mostly just to make them selves feel good, 90% not kosher is still not kosher.
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amother
Lightcyan
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 6:27 am
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I grew up in a community where it's fairly common. It's 100% due to lack of knowledge (plus of few cases of just don't care). They really do think kosher = no non kosher animals/sea creatures, meat properly schechted, and meat and dairy not mixed. They are simply not aware that there's more nitty gritty, that even vegan food can be non kosher. They don't think of the bug issue or the wine issue or the bishul issue. Many also don't realize there can be issues with dairy only (rennet in cheese, stuff being mixed with wine or a fleshig stock for flavor etc). Nobody knowledgeable finds it ok, they are either deliberately loosey goosey with kashrus or they're genuinely not aware of all the issues.
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essie14
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 6:37 am
I know people who keep kosher at home but are just not as knowledgeable.
To many people, the big issues with kashrut are 1. No meat and milk 2. No pork or shellfish
So anything vegan is fine in their mind.
I also know a lot of people who just don't care and eat "kosher style " out of their home.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 6:41 am
| notshanarishona wrote: | | It’s not kosher (unless you are having a coke and a non cut up fruit). People make all sorts of justifications but it’s mostly just to make them selves feel good, 90% not kosher is still not kosher. |
Cut up fruit is not always an issue there are rabanim who will allow under certain conditions. For example my rav will allow cut up melons (nothing that needs to be checked like strawberries) if its from a place that cuts up bulk fruit as there are leniencies to rely on such as everything is cold and if there is something on the knife can rely on batul bashishim
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amother
Bone
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 6:45 am
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There are Jewish people who don't keep halacha properly but still keep somethign and are traditional. They might drive to shul on shabbos, eat matza on pesach but not clean their house of bread, and light candles on Friday night but have a treif family dinner. There's quite a range between those who have no Jewish identity and those who live their lives al pi halacha. This falls somewhere in that range. I have relatives who consider themselves to keep kosher but think it literally means not to eat something that is actually not kosher, they don't think anything more than that is needed.
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Comptroller
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 6:59 am
I see a lot of black and white thinking in this thread.
there are people who have to travel, for some reasons, and maybe it could help them when they could eat in a vegan restaurant on occasion. Judging them wholesale as "not keeping kosher", like people did on this thread seems a bit exagerated to me.
I understand that there are users on this site who never step outside the 4 amos of their stetl where kosher food is readily available. Let me tell you: not everybody lives like this.
And please, don't come and accuse me of eating in vegan restaurants without a hechsher, I belong to the category who might have to travel to places where no ready made kosher food is available, and I go to extreme lengths to cook in my hotel room in such cases. That's why I know that it is a terrible headache, and why I understand that not everybody would do that and why I advocate against judging persons in such circumstances harshly.
Maybe concentrate your attention on your tzitzis, your life will not become better by judging others.
And if you are so jealous of those who eat in vegan restaurants, just try it yourself and that's it. Don't live by what society around you imposes on you, just for spectacle.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 7:04 am
| Comptroller wrote: | I see a lot of black and white thinking in this thread.
there are people who have to travel, for some reasons, and maybe it could help them when they could eat in a vegan restaurant on occasion. Judging them wholesale as "not keeping kosher", like people did on this thread seems a bit exagerated to me.
I understand that there are users on this site who never step outside the 4 amos of their stetl where kosher food is readily available. Let me tell you: not everybody lives like this.
And please, don't come and accuse me of eating in vegan restaurants without a hechsher, I belong to the category who might have to travel to places where no ready made kosher food is available, and I go to extreme lengths to cook in my hotel room in such cases. That's why I know that it is a terrible headache, and why I understand that not everybody would do that and why I advocate against judging persons in such circumstances harshly.
Maybe concentrate your attention on your tzitzis, your life will not become better by judging others.
And if you are so jealous of those who eat in vegan restaurants, just try it yourself and that's it. Don't live by what society around you imposes on you, just for spectacle. |
While I agree with you about being dlkz im confused by your last line. Do you not believe in halacha? Or following laws of kashrus? I dont get when u mean by society imposes please explain
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Comptroller
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Thu, Jun 20 2024, 7:15 am
| amother Crimson wrote: | | While I agree with you about being dlkz im confused by your last line. Do you not believe in halacha? Or following laws of kashrus? I dont get when u mean by society imposes please explain |
I believe in halacha, and I believe that there is some flexibility in halacha, which also depends on doability.
I was quite shocked by this thread opened by this daughter-in-law who was all outraged that her mother-in-law went to eat in a vegan restaurant without a hechsher during her vacation. How is this her business? How has she the right to judge her mother-in-law? What about kibud av va em?
The poor mother-in-law told her casually that she went to this restaurant. She did not ask her to come along, she did not take her children to this restaurant, how is this DIL's business?
But DIL seemed to suffer a lot, and the suffering seemed partly due to the fact that she would like to do it too, if she was allowed to, and she needed reasssurance that it was completely forbidden from the crowd here.
If not doing it is so hard for her, let her do it, and relieve herself, so that she does not need to judge her mother in law so harshly. That's what I mean.
No, I don't think that the world will crumble if she does it. No, I don't think that Hashem will reject her if she does it.
However, according to the reactions on this thread - and her thread - it is plausible that her social environment will reject her if she does it.
So what she does or doesn't do is determined more by her social environment than by actual halacha.
In my view, this is an unhealthy way of living religion, also a way that opens the gates for hypocrisy (I can do it, as long as no-one from my social circle will know). Her religion should focus on her relationship to hashem and to halacha, not on what her MIL does and not on what her social circles think about her.
Full disclosure: I cook for myself when I am in a place without a kosher restaurant, but I use chalav akum and I drink teas and coffees out of glasses, and this helps me cope. Without that, I don't know if I could do it. So I am sure that there is a whole crowd here who would say that chalav akum is completely assur.
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