How often does your teen goes to sleep blowing...

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 9:54 am

Chayalle wrote:

So what happens to the next generation? They will also expect their spouses to do it all alone like you do?

It may not be worth getting upset, but calmly making it clear to the family that you aren't making them a beautiful YT solo is definitely worth it.
Rabbi Orlowek says that if your family does not help, you should make a bare-bones YT - what you can manage very simply without working too hard. If they ask where the cheesecake is, you tell them you would have made some if you had everyone's cooperation.

I view myself as the manager at home. The burden to get it done is mine, but I delegate. My teen isn't going to anticipate what I need (though she occasionally surprises me). I spell it out to her. She came home yesterday (from taking a final exam), blew her stack (about the final and the teacher) and then I informed her I needed vegetables and apples peeled. She asked if she can go swimming after that, neighbor/friend with pool invited her, and I said yes, but I will need more help from her today. She agreed. The peeling got done really quickly BH. (incentives help!) (I peeked into her room last night. Lucky her that happened after she left for swimming.....cleanup is being one of her jobs today, so I think I'm gonna ask her to vacuum some rooms while she's at it.) I try to focus on jobs I know she will do, and give those to her.

Your interaction with your teen is inspiring.

I do find complaining on YT of not getting cooperation to be passive aggressive and might ruin the YT mood.

I highly recommend early planning and involving everyone in the process. Make a family meeting and write lists, ask who is going to take on making the cheesecake, who is going to make the blintzes, Who is on flower/decorating- setting the table etc etc. Age appropriate tasks of course. Collaboration encouraged ( two can do the job together).
Collaborative delegation.
To wait till YT to complain that no one helps creates resentment, and doesnt honor the YT.

amother

↑ Moonstone ↓

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 9:57 am

amother Hosta wrote:

There is no magical thing to believe in. You either have self awareness or you don’t. And this teen doesn’t have any therefore she won’t know what she did wrong. And babying kids doesn’t help the situation. The issue is so much bigger than the op yelling. How did they even get into this mode that a 17 year old doesn’t know erev Yom tov is a significant time that requires hard work. She needs to analyze where the whole thing went wrong and fix the entire dynamic. She’s a little old to learn about helping because that’s a basic middah in the Torah, and being aware of people around her. Hopefully she can turn this around and it will be a lesson for everyone. I think a much bigger conversation is needed and focusing on only apologizing is counter productive because op will be yelling again very soon because humans can’t survive this way. She needs a proper plan for the future, she needs a set up where her older kids have jobs for erev Yom tov and everyone knows the schedule and what needs to happen. This didn’t happen in a vacuum.

So you're agreeing that this is mostly on the mother.
The mom should be teaching her children to chip in from a young age. The mom needs to be able to delegate in a way for children to understand what is needed from them. The mom shouldn't be complaining if she didn't specifically tell the child what's needed. The mom should not be engaging in power struggles with her kids when they mess up.
There's a lot of things missing here in this story, including most of the points I made. I don't know what this mom does it doesn't do. I just pointed out the pettiness of refusing to apologize after a fight.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 9:58 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I agree, and that is a last ditch type of response in an extreme situation where a mother is expected to do everything with no help, the family just sat around shmoozing and refused to pitch in. In such a situation, she is not required to make all the extras that make the YT pleasant. Her family may have to learn that their mother is not the servant that needs to create that perfect YT for them without their assistance.

However I don't recommend getting to that point if at all possible. Advance collaboration of the family is truly the best way.

keym

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 10:06 am

Chayalle wrote:

To an extent sometimes.
Sometimes advance collaboration stresses teens out, especially with their hectic schedule.
Sitting down 2 weeks ago and asking my teen daughter which kugel she'd like to take responsibility for would likely get a very overwhelmed response. She has reports, finals, she can't commit.
On the other hand, yesterday when she came home from her finals and she was officially on vacation, I cal say "peel vegetables, make cookies hang a load, wash a load of dishes, please choose 2 e,things".

Same thing for my mesivta boys. Asking them 2 weeks what they want to take responsibility for is overwhelming. Their schedule is tight. How can they commit to something so far in advance like this
This afternoon, after they've eaten, they know that they'll be told to choose 2-3 jobs from the list

↑ shabbatiscoming ↓

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 10:07 am

amother Lightcoral wrote:

Ever heard of the saying “he’s about to blow his top”?
It refers to a pot that has so much steam that the top will blow off soon - we adopt that saying for a really angry, worked up person.
Imagine a teen is about to blow their top. Crying, yelling, sulking….
And then they blow their top.
That’s “blowing”.

But in englidh you dont say "they are blowing" to mean sulking. It does not make sense.

amother

Salmon ↓

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 10:07 am

didn't read all the posts but I find that a little prevention goes a long way.
My husband convinced me to write up a menu and talk to the kids. They were involved in deciding parts of the menu as well. I find sometimes giving choice like make what you want for dessert helps and sometimes NOT giving choice because it's overwhelming helps. they were each able to pick what they wanted to make and I'm available to assist as needed.

while it can feel like I'm being pulled in multiple directions, ALL my kids (ages 5-14) are involved in helping cook and a lot of the physical load is removed from me. do you have other kids? are they helping or because she's 17 you expect her to be your right hand gal?
Do you give her freedom of when?

↑ Chayalle

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 10:11 am

keym wrote:

Yep agree.
I was responding to the poster who said she has learned it's not worth asking her family to pitch in and she does everything herself while they sit and shmooze.
And I do think that that type of dynamic in a family is unhealthy and the response of the mother might have to be not so healthy either - she does not have to go the extra mile if her family isn't pitching in.

When I say advance collaboration I don't necessarily mean two weeks in advance. Erev YT or the day before is also in advance.

I'm not so planned out myself that I know what I'm gonna need my teen to help me with, two weeks before YT (though it seems other amothers here are! Good for them!)

Usually it's more like when my girls come home I look at my list and decide what I can delegate to them. Sometimes they offer. If they don't, I tell them - I'm gonna need your help with XYZ.

amother

↑ Salmon

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 10:33 am

chanatron1000 wrote:

In adulthood, responsibility comes along with autonomy. Teens already have a lot of responsibility and very little autonomy.

maybe thats the issue? personally I don't think thats true for my teen so maybe thats why it works. as you get older you get more freedom and more responsibility is a common phrase in our house. shes also not super loaded down with responsibility. we'll see how high school goes but in elementary school she really didn't have so much homework. she has plenty of time to just chill, develop hobbies and yes help out.

amother

↑ Moonstone ↓

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 11:17 am

amother Hosta wrote:

I'm coming back to this because I noticed a pattern here. Whenever OP's reaction to her daughter comes up you rush to change the conversation back to the daughter and her bad middos, as if you think the mom is justified in not delegating properly and then yelling at her daughter and refusing to end the fight because her daughter has bad middos.
That's not how chinuch works and the blame is not completely the daughter's. A mother-daughter relationship is complex, especially when said daughter is a teen, and the mom is not always right just because she's the mom.

amother

Watermelon

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 11:41 am

amother Dodgerblue wrote:

My kids don't help. Last night my older kods and dh were schmoozing on the couch outside the kitchen while I was non stop busy. I used to ask and get upset when no one helped. I realized it's not worth it.

I went to sleep at 2 and woke up at 6:30. I work from 9-2 today. I should have taken a day off today, but I work in a non Jewish company and 2 days off midweek is alot.

That’s really bad chinuch from your dh. He should have gotten up to help and gotten the kids to help too.

amother

↑ Hosta ↓

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 11:56 am

amother Moonstone wrote:

I think you are projecting a lot on my comments. I never addressed how the mother should I approach the yelling. I focused on the bigger picture and issue. She got pages of responses about the yelling. I didn’t feel the need to add to it. Not so many responses about dealing with all the root issues. So she was a given a bandaid because only focusing on apologizing on the here and now and not on preventing it in the future is just stupid.

bigsis144

Tue, Jun 11 2024, 11:59 am

MiracleMama wrote:

The saying that couple should never go to bed angry extends here to the whole family. Nobody goes to bed angry. B"H teen blow ups are rare, but when they happen we talk it out before bed always.

I disagree. Sometimes everybody needs to cool off, and demanding to resolve an issue while emotions are still intense will only drag it on. Problem solving when you’re riled up is so much harder.

It’s okay to “go to bed angry” as long as the general pattern is to talk about it eventually and not just shove it under the rug.