Bringing babies to a shuir

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Is it rude to bring your baby to a shuir?

Yes

82%

[ 130 ]

17%

[ 28 ]

Total Votes : 158

↑ singleagain

Mon, May 27 2024, 9:13 am

I don't think anybody is advocating for completely child free spaces, but if your children are misbehaving you have to remove them from the situation.

People don't do that. That's when people get upset

zaq ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 9:44 am

amother Strawberry wrote:

Shofar is different than a shiur. I have a baby outside of my work hours I have no babysitting and my husband is rarely home. I would never dream of bringing a baby to a shiur. It is not the time of my life to be going to shiurim unless I can somehow find a babysitter. Thats ok when the kids get older I can go to shiurim then. We also live in a time where u can listen to a shiur from home.

This!

↑ zaq

Mon, May 27 2024, 9:45 am

Ruchel wrote:

They must but they don't.

So start a grassroots women's movement and DEMAND that they do.

amother

Geranium

Mon, May 27 2024, 9:49 am

amother Cadetblue wrote:

I think it’s wrong and selfish even if they are a newborn or are calm
It changes the environment and vibe for everybody there

I can't understand this at all. Are you suffering from infertility? That's the only way I can think of you being upset at seeing a baby. Otherwise a calm baby should pose no problem to anyone and there's no reason why a mother can't bring the baby and step out as soon as it makes a noise

↑ Ruchel ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 10:16 am

zaq wrote:

So start a grassroots women's movement and DEMAND that they do.

How do you know I didn't ? How do you know they didn't tell me there isn't anyone to read a second?.
In the end we moved;

I agree with geranium and suffered with SIF - granted, it's not PIF

amother

Razzmatazz

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:25 am

amother OP wrote:

It’s not advertised as a mommy and me but it’s for young marrieds so lots of people end up bringing their babies because other people do it too. I just don’t understand how a mother could be sitting there while her baby is making a ruckus and not do anything about it.

Yerushalayim? I've been to these types of shiurim as well, and yes I've come with a baby before on occasion. My 2 cents - there is a big difference betweeen bringing a baby and right away stepping out when they need something/are disrupting versus bringing a baby and trying to settle them while staying in the shiur, thus disturbing everyone until you manage to get them quiet. The way how you describe, just sitting there while the baby makes noise, is extremely inconsiderate. Not excusing that at all. But I do think there is a way to do it that is acceptable.

In addition I agree with the poster who said there is a big difference when this is a daytime shiur. Nightime shiurim are often filled with people who make a big effort to come and this is their only chance to do such a thing for themselves and I would hesitate more unless its an older baby that it's past their bedtime so really I expect them to just sleep. Not that people coming to a daytime shiur don't deserve to be able to hear the shiur - obviously they do - but I feel that it's more understandable for a woman to come with a baby. I'm bezH having a baby in a few months, and one thing that I am imagining could be so nice for me on maternity leave (3-4 months here, so once I'm functioning enough) will be to go to some of these daytime shiurim that I haven't had the option of attending for ages, since I work. Going to a shiur is such a nice way to get out, socialize, and get some inspiration, all of which are hard things for someone home with a baby to do. Sure, I can go to the park and sit on a bench with my newborn if it's nice weather. But I am 3x more motivated to shlep out of the house for something where I know I will see people and hear something worthwhile as well.

Cheiny ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:28 am

amother OP wrote:

I was at a shuir with about 50 other young married women and a few of them brought their babies. The babies all took turns making noises and crying. At first I felt bad for the young mothers who I’m sure really wanted to get out and enjoy the shuir and they should be able to do so even with a baby. But as the noise continued I couldn’t help it and I started getting really annoyed. I could barely hear what was being said and the mothers of these babies didn’t seem to care. I feel bad but at the same time why should 50 people suffer because you want to bring your baby.
Am I wrong for this?

You’re absolutely right. It’s disrespectful to every attendee, and especially to the speaker to be repeatedly disturbed by noisy babies!

↑ Cheiny ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:29 am

singleagain wrote:

No you are not wrong. If the women had no choice they should have taken their babies out so they wouldn't disturb everyone else

The babies shouldn’t be brought in the first place, because it’s disturbing until they can take the baby out of the room…

↑ Cheiny ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:32 am

amother Cognac wrote:

We have this at our shul
It is advertised babies are welcomed
Older women complain
It’s not nice when the older women shush them
There are other Shiurim that no babies should come.
At these shiurim the mothers that bring babies (they really shouldn’t) know to take the baby out if they start crying. Usually no babies come. But once in a while Amon brings a sleeping baby in the stroller

It’s not nice when women shush them? So their Shiur should be disturbed by the babies?
This is ridiculous.

↑ Cheiny ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:33 am

Ruchel wrote:

We can't coop up moms and want many kids
Or say "women need to hear shofar/asered hadibros" and then "but without kids"

That’s where babysitters, or taking turns with dh, comes in.

amother

Sienna ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:34 am

I don’t have a problem with babies being there. But the accepted practice is you sit near the door and run out the second your baby is disruptive.

amother

DarkKhaki

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:35 am

OP your issue isn’t really that they’re bringing babies to the shiur, it’s that they don’t take them out when they’re crying. Would you be bothered if the moms brought sleeping babies who didn’t make a sound? Nope

yellowroses

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:36 am

I personally think that it’s lack of seichel to bring along a baby to a shiur…no shiur is obligatory. But again, I‘m not one of these moms that take their baby along to random places. I either organize myself with hubby and bbsitter or just stay home.

↑ Cheiny ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:38 am

amother Geranium wrote:

And what about if there are several babies there so every time each one makes noise it’s yet another interruption until the mother can get the baby out of the room? Is that fair to the speaker? To those trying to focus on the Shiur?

↑ Cheiny ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:38 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

So you’re saying numerous SHORT interruptions are fine, as long as it’s not one long interruption? I couldn’t disagree more.

And there’s no difference whether it’s daytime or nighttime, the results are the same. The speaker and attendees have a right to enjoy the Shiur without interruptions…

↑ Cheiny ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:43 am

amother Sienna wrote:

I don’t have a problem with babies being there. But the accepted practice is you sit near the door and run out the second your baby is disruptive.

So again, what if there are 5 babies and their Moms are all sitting in back, but all 5 start making noise at one point or another and interrupt the Shiur for even the short time it takes the Mom to leave the room? That’s ok?

Last edited by Cheiny on Mon, May 27 2024, 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Sienna ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:45 am

Cheiny wrote:

Yeah I think everyone can handle that. Constant noise and having to walk far to leave are not ok.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 11:56 am

Cheiny wrote:

That’s where babysitters, or taking turns with dh, comes in.

And that's where "oh you left your children with a non Jew on shabbes/yt" comes in. PLus not everyone can afford this, even a few times a year (not talking about me, but say, when I know a family leaves in social apartment I seriously assume they won't get a sitter). Taking turns, that's assuming there's more than one event. Where I live it's a lot. But I remember where I used to live. The hatred of babies I've encountered is extremely strange - do they not want moms with a good mental health who won't burn out, or???
BH I would never settle in a posh place where kids are hidden until somehow they appear Rolling Laughter

↑ Cheiny ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 12:24 pm

amother Sienna wrote:

Yeah I think everyone can handle that. Constant noise and having to walk far to leave are not ok.

You shouldn’t assume or speak for others. You should put yourself in the shoes of the speaker as well. Losing your focus and what you were in middle of speaking about while numerous interruptions take place, even short ones, is not so simple and not fair or respectful.

There’s a time and a place…

↑ Cheiny ↓

Mon, May 27 2024, 12:28 pm

Ruchel wrote:

There are plenty of shiurim that don’t take place on Shabbos.

Hatred of babies? That’s an extreme way of looking at it. Being upset by numerous interruptions (and contrary to how it’s being presented here by some, as if the Moms always are near the back and immediately get up and run out the first second the baby cries…) is not the same as hating babies,

If all it’s going to take for someone’s mental health to be endangered, is not being able to attend a certain shiur with their baby, then there are much more issues to be concerned about… I think we can all agree that’s an exaggeration, not reality.

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