S/o At what age do girls feel the need for privacy?

amother

↑ Azalea ↓

Mon, May 20 2024, 1:17 pm

amother OP wrote:

Interesting. So girls who wear uniform jumpers/skirts wear shorts under them? And under Shabbos dresses? And nightgowns?

I've just never come across this concept before.

Yes under uniforms and skirts. Children’s place sells great skorts, I get those too.

Shabbos dresses, depends on the style and how I expect her to play. She’s into a gymnastics stage, so for now yes.

Not under nightgowns, unless she’s in the mood.

ETA- when they’re wearing shorts, you never need to say anything about pulling down their sjirt. That’s one less thing to remind her about if it’s something you’re trying to cut down on.

amother

Lavender

Mon, May 20 2024, 1:53 pm

I only read the first few posts. Most kids already have some sense of privacy by than. I told my 8 year old that we need to dress in the house the way a non jew dresses outside the house. I thought it was a good guide. A non Jewish girl won't go to the grocery in her underwear so we don't walk around the house in our underwear. But if we have guest I see she is very careful and in general won't walk around without underwear at least and was receptive when I explained she needs to wear at least shorts and a top around the house.

essie14

Mon, May 20 2024, 2:18 pm

My DD naturally developed a sense of privacy at around 5-6. She will be naked in front of me but not in front of any other family members. She doesn't want her older siblings or DH to see her in underwear.

OTOH, my step-DD is over 20 and she sits on the couch with her underwear showing.

amother

Oak

Mon, May 20 2024, 2:24 pm

Tznius is something a mother teaches to her daughters. Some kids have a natural tznua shy disposition and some need to be taught. As a kid if I would sit with my feet spread apart my mom would tell me to sit tzniusdig.

amother

↑ Electricblue

Mon, May 20 2024, 2:42 pm

amother OP wrote:

Interesting. So girls who wear uniform jumpers/skirts wear shorts under them? And under Shabbos dresses? And nightgowns?

I've just never come across this concept before.

Yes under all clothing. It's a very out of town/American type of thing that makes so much sense. I'm not sure why all communities don't make it thing. No not night gowns. I would do pajamas that have a top and pants.

amother

↑ Peachpuff ↓

Mon, May 20 2024, 2:49 pm

amother Azalea wrote:

It’s missing the point though. For tznius when they are over 12 it’s not ok to have their skirt fly up and show shorts. So you still need to teach the concept of not showing under their skirts. Teaching to pull down their skirt isn’t only about seeing underwear. And I wouldn’t be ok with any girl over 5 just running around with her skirt flying up showing her shorts.

justforfun87

Mon, May 20 2024, 2:50 pm

amother Electricblue wrote:

Few points:

If my girls are in situations where they will be jumping/playing etc they wear shorts. I believe they should fully be allowed to flip and jump without feeling shamed.

There is also a concept of consent. Just because a child is not physically aware of their nudity it is still important that the person exposed to the nakedness is not uncomfortable. I did learn this concept in a secular Facebook group for raising healthy children so don't throw tomatoes at me about it.

At first when I read the OP my cringe vibes went up but then I realized my 7 and 9yr old sometimes too walk around not dressed at home when getting into shower etc. It bothers my son so I insist they put on clothing. They are fully aware though and act embarrassed (not correct word) if there are strangers in the home and they aren't covered.

amother

↑ Peachpuff ↓

Mon, May 20 2024, 2:50 pm

amother Brunette wrote:

A typical kid starts to want privacy around 3 for the bathroom. Around 9 they won't get undress in front of others. That's when sense of self starts from my experience. Kids without awareness won't have this. My 12 year old is autistic high functioning and doesn't really have this. Around immediate family she doesn't care. Around extended family we have taught her to be careful. I suspect Around 15-17 she will start caring being socially/emotionally she is still younger.

I disagree with your numbers. I have tons of kids ages 4-6 who come through my house to play and half forget to close the bathroom door. And many kids are ok getting undressed in front of others until 12. So your numbers are not about “typical” kids.

↑ tulip3 ↓

Mon, May 20 2024, 2:53 pm

amother Peachpuff wrote:

I don't think tnsius has to be taught verbally with rules from so young and it looks like you'll disagree. I buy skirts that are long enough so there's no preaching, skirts too short, I give it away. They see how I sit and how I don't let my skirt fly up. Role modeling is much better then preaching and fighting in my opinion.
You won't let your 5 year old play on the playground and turn upside down? Or do a cartwheel on the grass?

amother

↑ Peachpuff

Mon, May 20 2024, 2:57 pm

tulip3 wrote:

How old is your oldest? I have found that anything you feel is important must be verbally spoken about. Nothing is given over just by modeling. Nothing. And no my kids over 5 know that behavior that will make their skirts go up has to be done indoors or in our private gated yard. They do not go upside down in public parks or on the lawn.

amother

Foxglove

Mon, May 20 2024, 3:00 pm

Op it is my opinion that your daughter is not responding in a typical way. It doesnt sound just absentminded it sounds more than that the camp example sounds like shes challenging you. I would speak with a professional and tread lightly here. Is she oppositional in other ways? How does she do with other rules and boundaries? Do you as a parent have difficulty implementing other rules and boundaries. Somethings not right here I would explore this with a professional.

↑ tulip3 ↓

Mon, May 20 2024, 3:01 pm

amother Peachpuff wrote:

My oldest is almost bas mitzvah and I was raised this way and it's working for my family too.

amother

Watermelon

Mon, May 20 2024, 3:55 pm

OP, My oldest dd was exactly the same way. It was less problematic because she didn't have older brothers around.

She had no privacy/inner tznius feelings until like 11 or 12. She would totally come out of the shower with just a towel and not care if it didn't cover her properly.

It was not oppositional in any way - she just didn't care or know why she should.

I would give her gentle reminders, hints, trying for head or hand motions over verbal admonitions so she wouldn't feel like I'm constantly on her case. and I laughed it off incredulously a lot in private to my husband.

She grew into her teenagehood as a wonderful , mature , tzniusdik girl. It comes around at some point

amother

Petunia

Mon, May 20 2024, 10:45 pm

We are a one gender family so far with only girls so I might be less into it than others. My 8 year old has no issue using the bathroom with the door open and will even bathe with it open. Unless I specifically go over and close it. She wouldn't even care if I was in the bathroom making another child's hair, she would start using the toilet right then. Very typically developed child bh. I'm not worried. My older brothers made me crazy about tznius but honestly until it kicked in on its own at about 10, I couldn't care less what they said. I try to gently direct her to proper tznius, but I don't make a fuss if she walks out of her room in just a shirt and underwear because she needs to go 2 flights down to the laundry room where her favorite jumper is hanging. Obviously if guests were there I would say something but I think she would chap on her own then too.
It'll happen slowly. I'm not worried at this age at all.

amother

Stoneblue

Mon, May 20 2024, 11:05 pm

[quote="amother Powderblue"]I believe Chinuch in tznius should start when the child is young. Like 2/3. Or maybe even younger, because the child sees what's considered appropriate in the house by older family members.[b]

I believe there are different parts of tznius development with children. My 8.5 girl is very aware of tznius in a beautiful way. She adjusts her skirt,she let's me know when trying on new clothing if skirt or sleeves are not to her tznius approval. we is happy to fight for a turn to get dressed in the bathroom and ask me to bring her her clothing to her bed.
On the flip side she will come out of rhe shower with a towel kinda wrapped around her and either sit around in it or put on just her panties and undershirt before continuing to get dressed and walk around house wirh big brothers in house.
Sane child who will not let her friends in the front door if her feet aren't covered

amother

↑ Azalea

Mon, May 20 2024, 11:13 pm

amother Peachpuff wrote:

It depends what your point is…

amother

Bottlebrush

Mon, May 20 2024, 11:21 pm

I think it’s mostly nature. My dd really did not have a sense for this until about 9 and even then we had to constantly remind her to close the bathroom door when she’s using the facilities or showering. She’d walk naked from the shower to her room. Her younger sister was ahead of her. For the older one, it had to be taught. If she sits with everything showing, I’d tell her, “hey! I don’t want to see that!” Covering my eyes in a joking way. She isn’t doing it on purpose. It’s a lack of body awareness.

I think many mothers are afraid of using the word tznius because of negative connotations. Honestly, I was always taught that tznius is a mitzva to cover because our bodies are holy, with zero reference to the opposite sx. There is no shame or perversion. Plus, it applies to both genders. If my toddler son ran through the house naked, I’ll tell him that’s not tznius, etc.

↑ tulip3

Tue, May 21 2024, 1:31 pm

amother Bottlebrush wrote:

It does have some reference to the other gender- we don't need to be covered around other girls. I like that your applying it to both genders.