Drinks | Imamother

balance

Sat, May 11 2024, 10:56 pm

We have only water in the house during the week. But my husband and I keep that as well! and the kids know it's for their health.
The issue here is that you are clearly putting your interests before his. You don't honestly mind him drinking sugar, you just don't like the idea of a mess for you to clean up. proof of this? you yourself drink the sugar.
You are making him feeling that his needs are not important. If you honestly feel that he should not be drinking sugar for health reasons, you are going to either not drink it yourself or come up with a really good reason why you are different from him.
You are also treating him like a baby. I would have no worries about a 13 yr old leaving half drunk cups lying around. Why should he? just tell him, if he's old enough to drink juice, he's old enough to clean up after himself. That means no spills or clean them up if there are. It means no leaving half drunk cups around. It means rinsing the cup when you're done. It means putting the juice back in the fridge.

NechaMom

Sat, May 11 2024, 11:00 pm

This thread is definitely strange. You shouldn't be pouring your 13 year old drinks and they shouldn't have to ask permission for a drink ever. Are you always around when your child is thirsty? Is your 13 year old never thirsty when you're in the shower or grocery?Whatever is in the fridge is free for them to take. Some people don't regularly buy soda and that's fine. But you drink snapple in front of the child and you tell them to only drink water??? What answers are you expecting here? I think you know that it's messed up.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, May 11 2024, 11:25 pm

On another note, do you let your kids have as much challah as they want by Shabbos meals? I find if we let them fill up on challah they won't eat anything else. Yet they complain, even if I tell them they can have more after the main course.
Trying to figure out if I am also crazy in this scenario?
(My kids are very picky bad eaters in general. )

camp123 ↓

Sat, May 11 2024, 11:36 pm

amother Calendula wrote:

Of course your son is right. Kids should be able to drink whenever they want. This is concerning.

To me this is more concerning. Kids don't have the intelligence or ability to make informed decisions about whether or not to have soda. It's tastes good so they'll drink it. An adult should hopefully realize that drinking soda regularly will rot their teeth, increase their likeliness of getting diabetes, wreck havoc with their gut and overall health. It's our jobs as adults to protect our kids from their ignorance and immaturity. The problem is that so many adults have never grown up and taken the time to learn about the consequences of certain actions. The idea that kids and adults can make the same informed decisions is the cause of many societal problems.

↑ camp123

Sat, May 11 2024, 11:40 pm

amother OP wrote:

I don't think you are being crazy, I encourage them to leave space for good, nutritious food. I would say I can do this until they are teenagers.
There is nothing wrong with being the adult and educating and protecting your kids.
Don't let society bully you into destroying your kids health. Educate your kids, be firm and flexible when necessary and one day your kids will realize and you love and care about them.

Rappel

Sat, May 11 2024, 11:49 pm

Well, at least you're honest. That takes courage.

My kids can have water, tea, seltzer... Anything we stock in the house.

Shabbat, I buy orange juice and cranberry juice, and we mix it with seltzer so there's enough for everyone to enjoy.

If they spill anything - food, water, or pond slime - they know where the rags are.

Challah - unlimited. I also put many salatim on the table. I have one kid whom mostly eats challah and tehina every seudah. Nutritionally, that's fine, so I don't sweat it.

Last edited by Rappel on Sat, May 11 2024, 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ Comptroller ↓

Sat, May 11 2024, 11:50 pm

amother OP wrote:

Same thing here: If you want to restrict, bake smaller challos, and when it's gone, it's gone.
If it's important to make it "fair" portion it out or bake a small challa per person.

But it's always hard to restrict what is there.

amother

Poppy

Sun, May 12 2024, 12:32 am

I grew up with only water and never thought to ask for juice or anything else... why? Because my mother wasn't sitting around drinking it! And there was nothing other than water in the house.
Even on Shabbos.
I like it and implemented it in my house but I juice on my own so they get fresh juice daily.

Challa... and this goes for every other food....
Don't talk about food and don't restrict food. Offer what you have and when it's gone it's gone. If you feel like they're filling up, maybe buy or make sourdough which is healthier than white wheat.

↑ Comptroller

Sun, May 12 2024, 12:52 am

If you think that your children should eat more of the main course and less challah, maybe serve the main course immediatly and fish and soup afterwards, and then desert.

Or give them some of the main course before the meal.

Maybe they fill up on challah because they are hungry and can't wait until the main course is served.

ora_43 ↓

Sun, May 12 2024, 1:41 am

I think one of the big issues here is you're talking in the overall category of "kids," but this is the kind of thing that needs to be changing as your kid grows up.

Kids need to be given increasing freedom. Even though they will sometimes mess up. It's better to have a kid who makes most of their own decisions re: eating at 13, and makes a few bad ones, than to end up with an adult who's completely unaccustomed to deciding for themselves how much bread to eat or juice to drink.

JMHO:

Small kids - 2-5ish - I decide what they drink. If there's juice and other people are drinking the juice, they can have some too - otherwise it's just cruel. But I make sure other people aren't drinking juice around them very often.

Medium kids - say, 6-10 - They need to ask me before taking juice or soda. Juice and soda are mostly only on Shabbat.

Big kids - 11-14 - House rules say soda and juice purchased on Thursday/Friday is for Shabbat. OTOH leftover juice/soda is up for grabs from Sunday. They can buy their own soft drinks (using their own money). But if I notice that they're abusing this - ie drinking way too much sugary/caffeinated drinks - I intervene.

Almost-adults - 15-17 - Same as 11-14s except I barely notice what they drink, and if I think they're overdoing it, the only intervention would be me expressing my concern verbally.

↑ ora_43

Sun, May 12 2024, 1:43 am

Similar breakdown for challah. For younger kids, there's a 2-slice limit. Older kids eat what they want and suffer the consequences.

Like others said, here it's easier to gently encourage healthy choices by having other foods they like available right away. (which I realize is easier said than done with picky kids)

amother

Snowflake

Sun, May 12 2024, 2:06 am

If you think you can’t teach your 13 year old not to spill drinks or put his cups in the garbage, at what age do you think you’ll let go?

Also about challah- I serve the fish as soon as we hand out the challah and my kids just eat the fish right away and take dips after

amother

Cyan

Sun, May 12 2024, 2:32 am

ora_43 wrote:

Literally the same. My sons 15 and they have a coffee machine in Yeshiva and all his classmates drink besides him, but he'll drink some coke here and there and I don't mind he actually needs some extra calories

amother

Electricblue ↓

Sun, May 12 2024, 3:15 am

amother OP wrote:

How long are they waiting for the main course? We give out one piece of challah per person, give kids food, serve the rest of the food, and then once everyone is sitting and eating we give out more challah as needed. If they're asking because they're hungry, there's real food on their plate while they wait for us to return to the table, and they end up eating it. If they're asking because they just really like challah, cut up what's there, give it out, and then that's it.

How old are the kids we're discussing though?

imasinger

Sun, May 12 2024, 3:27 am

If you ever plan on sending kids to camp or yeshiva -- or get married/leave home as adults -- they'll have to learn how to manage and control themselves.

Ora_43 offers sensible guidelines for both drinks and challah. I'd just add that for the youngest, you can often fill a cup with at least part water and just top off with a smaller amount of a sweetened drink.

If you want a tween or teen not to leave half finished cups of soda or juice around, there are ways to work on that. You can assign each older child their own color cup, that they are responsible for rinsing their cup right away when finished. That way, you'll know who forgets, and can work with those kids.

You can also make a house rule that everyone (including adults) who wants a sweetened drink must first drink a full cup of water. If you model this, it may help everyone live healthier.

It might be a good idea for you to read some books or attend some shiurim on parenting teens. Right now, you only have one, but that will change. The current rule rigidity will likely cause much household agmas nefesh. Learn now how to adapt.

And if you can update what you decide and how it works out, that would help others here.

amother

Moccasin

Sun, May 12 2024, 4:09 am

OP you aren't crazy. Teens tend to "forget" the most basic things. They'll spill and not clean up. They'll use 10 disposable cups in an hour. They'll guzzle an entire bottle of sugar drink just because they think they want to.
I stopped buying juice and soda because if it's in the fridge, it's gone by morning. I'll buy some for shabbos meal once every few months so they don't feel deprived and once it's gone, it's gone.

happyness

Sun, May 12 2024, 4:31 am

We do water and seltzer all day and juice by meals. Fruit, bread, and crackers are always allowed. The adults do the same. We don’t let nosh or candy without asking. It’s pretty flexible. I dont think that’s the point tho.

Op you mentioned you’re like this in other areas
Are your kids allowed to eat whenever they want?

Are they able to go to the grocery and buy themselves snack?
Do u allow them to go to friends all the time?
How about clothing- can they select their own?

These are levels of independence that are necessary and healthy for children.

If we try to control our children with things that are inherent to their image of their self - their self image is underdeveloped. It’s incredibly damaging to a child and not so simple to play around with.

amother

Firethorn

Sun, May 12 2024, 4:39 am

Lady pick your battles. Taking a drink from the fridge is really not a high crime. Iyh as your children get older you are going to have real concerns hold your chips for then
Also a good rule of thumb is that any rule that has more than one clause is controlling and should be revisited

keym

Sun, May 12 2024, 4:49 am

I think a previous poster made a good point about not lumping all your kids together.
Being concerned about a 4 year old spilling is very different than being concerned about a 13 year old spilling.
Not to mention wanting him to have the decision making skills for being in camp, Yeshiva, going to friends.