S/O social suicide

amother

Thistle

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 5:51 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

I live OOT and I have no idea what company people's clothing is. There are cheap brands that look to me like expensive Jewish brands, and I cannot tell the difference. I am not interested in looking at tags.

I babysit, and there are some kids who look very put together, whether it's in Amazon clothing or frum stuff. Other kids come in ratty looking dinosaur t shirts. It never made the slightest difference to me until one day, a ratty t shirt kid had a leaky diaper and had no change of clothing. I put him in a different kid's change of clothes, and the difference was startling. He looked beautiful!!! I suddenly started to wish for him that he had some nicer looking clothing.

And so I would advise parents not to always use cheap looking t shirts. Try to find at least some respectable looking clothing, even if it is carters. It's okay to have some clothing not as nice, but every kid should have a few decent looking things. But decent does not have to mean expensive.

I really hope this is a joke

amother

↑ Black

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 5:57 am

Comptroller wrote:

What's Carter?
Is it social suicide because it's too cheap or too expensive?
Keep us foreigners in the loop, please!

https://www.carters.com/

It's a relatively cheap non Jewish brand. Their clothing is quality (in the sense of being soft and comfortable) But they're not known to be the height of style.

Fyi, Carter's is not so cheap the price but they're having a major sale now. And they have major styles every few weeks.

Writergirl

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 5:58 am

nomismommy wrote:

This exactly. It looks absolutely horrible. Small children love colors. I hate the beige/brown/grey "asthaetic" that adults put on kids. Kids should be wearing whats comfortable (that should be a priority!!!), good quality if one can afford and what they like to wear. Even 2 and 3 year olds have preferences. My 3 year old daughter loves blue. Why would I dress her in brown instead? Because my neighbors might think blue is ugly? Who is more important here..my child or my neighbour? To me, its my child and her feelings.

Just curious for all of those judging those who judge....how is this post not judging the women who dress their kids in this type of fashion? I'm not so super fashion conscious and the meanness and judgement in this post screamed out at me.

↑ Comptroller ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 6:12 am

amother OP wrote:

When you remove the non Lakewooders from the poll, it's clear that about 75% of lakewood would never judge and less than 1% would look down on someone who dresses their kids this way.

Can we agree that it's motzi shem ra to say that Lakewood is full of judgy, materialistic people?

It is motzi shem ra on Lakewood to say it would be "social suicide" to have children wear Carter there, if it is not true.
However, on the other thread, those who said Carter should be avoided in Lakewood said they were from Lakewood.
So in fact, those who are "Motzi shem ra" are those who confirm by their words, by their judgemental attitude, that Lakewood is a judgemental society.

amother

Dodgerblue

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 6:26 am

I'm going to add my cents here bec this is something I'm passionate about.
I firmly believe you can dress your kids cheap and cute- which I do. Most of my kids clothes are from old navy, h & m, and children's place.
I used to buy carters more (I still do for some items) but there is a certain boldness or non-refinedness to a lot of their styles (think, strappy rompers, very baggy pants, bold slogans or pictures) which again, I feel I can say bec I used to dress my kids in them.
At some point I realized (yes, while living in Lakewood) that my kids stood out like sore thumbs and I just refined my styles without compromising on price.

amother

↑ Tiffanyblue

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 6:28 am

Comptroller wrote:

So because 2 people said that they now represent a town of thousands?? That’s not how it works. And it’s 100% motzei Shem ra.

amother

Grape

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 6:38 am

Honestly, I dont love carters but I do dress my kids in H&M, Target, etc and I have family members who dress their kids in so called 'jewish' clothing. First of all, most of them dont have the money and second of all, I dont get why you would want your boy to look like a girl and your girl to look like they are from the 1800s?
I don't judge them but I do think its strange, I still love them, their kids and would never treat them differently because they dress their kids differently

amother

Ebony ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 6:49 am

I never understand people who say they don't judge by clothing. its pure lies...
I wont think LESS of someone who dresses differently. but what you choose to wear and how you dress your kids does say something.
it is a first impression... like it or not.

human beings judge instinctively (its not necessarily a bad thing always) and while you shouldnt assume you know everything about a person just from one look, theres no denying that it does say something about you.

I dont think that dressing in carters or whatever says anything negative abouta child/mom. but if you live in a community where thats not the norm... then dont cry when people may initially look at you funny. thats life.

Chayalle ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 6:57 am

Sure, of course clothes say something about you, otherwise we'd all wear a basic set and the whole fashion industry would be kaput.
But that doesn't mean you have to dress your kids in brand name clothing and clone the neighbors on the block.
Nothing wrong with developing your own personal sense of style when dressing your kids, buying clothes you like in whichever store you like....
I've had times I found nice clothes in places you wouldn't believe, at prices you wouldn't believe (like I said on the other post, I remember the time I bought my girls adorable Children's Place skirts for my nephew's Bar Mitzva. I matched them with cardigans I bought (on sale) in a frum store. It all depends on the designer (for the non-brand-name clothes) of that particular season. I buy what I like, doesn't matter where it's from. I remember when my oldest was a baby, there was this particular brand that Walmart used to sell that I loved, and I used to buy her clothes there. Another year, it was gymboree.....I buy what I like when I find it at a price I can swallow, basically.

And if you get gifted a bunch of clothes from someone, use what you like (or can tolerate) and save for something else.

I do understand though, wanting to dress my child in clothes that I personally like. My kids are an extension of myself, and reflect me in some way.

amother

Lightgreen

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 7:20 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

So you do admit you look at kids differently because of their clothing.
Why does a 2 or 3 year old need to be "respectable"?
Why do they need to only wear drab, boring and monotonous beige, Grey and brown?
My son loves his dog and truck shirts. Shouldn't he be happy? Isn't that the most important thing?
Happy and clean. Those are my priorities.

amother

Bronze

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 7:29 am

My toddler is literally wearing a dinosaur t-shirt at daycare today, and it is one of multiple dinosaur t-shirts he owns and loves. I let him pick his outfits, within the boundaries of cleanliness, weather, and safety, and some days he looks downright clownish.

But yeah, if I lived in a place where most people cared about that sort of thing, I would probably not want my kid to stick out too extremely. Every place is a package deal, so if the good parts were really worth it to me, I would be willing to put up with an unofficial dress code that I secretly thought was dumb.

↑ Chayalle

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 7:40 am

Alot also depends on the personality and confidence of the child.
I have one of those children - you know, the one that, on her birthday in Primary when they could wear their own outfit instead of the uniform, chose (rather than the traditional Shabbos dress and shoes) to wear a tiered skirt with a floral shirt, a floppy orange hat, sunglasses, bright colored rain boots, and tons of beaded necklaces. Yep she went off to school like that. She was and is very popular BAH, has loads of friends BH, loads of personality, and marches to her own drumbeat. She can pull it off. (These days she laughs at herself at age 5 and says Maaaa, why did you let me do that? As if I had a choice.....)
But if your child is shy and has a hard time socially in general, it's worth finding out how he/she feels about clothes, and what makes him/her feel confident and do better socially. And some kids are aware of these things at age 3. (Above child most definitely had an opinion on clothes, from about age 2....I had to hide her out-of-season clothes, to avoid a battle over summer clothes in the winter, etc.....)

watergirl ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 8:03 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

I don't know you obviously and I have no way to prove this, but the way you wrote this post, I have a strong feeling you did not grow up "OOT". The bold statement does not compute with OOT living.

A child is beautiful because they have chein, not because of the clothing he was in.

My kids went to preschool in clothing that they could ruin. I wanted them to have a great day in school and that the teachers should let them. One of my kids "wore his day" on his clothes and that was fine with me.

I was a preschool teacher for many years. I will tell you how the mothers who dressed their kids in certain clothing made us rethink certain activities because they'd get really mad if the clothes was ruined. We literally had to limit the things we could do. The kids who came in "ratty" clothing had the best preschool experience. I'm not sure what the issue with a dinosaur shirt is... kids love dinos.

amother

Petunia

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 8:09 am

watergirl wrote:

I'm not sure what the issue with a dinosaur shirt is... kids love dinos.

I did not grow up in Lakewood. I would describe my family as heimish/JPF.
My mother AH never got my brothers shirts with dinos, or books about dinos. Some people have a Hashkafic issue with dinos because of the claims about the prehistoric age and it conflicting the age of the world according to the Torah (yes, we know different ways to reconcile these.)

↑ Comptroller ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 8:09 am

amother Tiffanyblue wrote:

So because 2 people said that they now represent a town of thousands?? That’s not how it works. And it’s 100% motzei Shem ra.

Well, if you take the poll here, you don't count the non-Lakewooders who just like to vote, you get 2/3 "no it does not matter at all" and 1/3 "yes, it would stand out"...

So even thought the percentage voting "it would be social suicide" is low, there is a whole stream of people who think it would matter and it would be preferable not to dress your children in "Carter's".

↑ watergirl ↓

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 8:26 am

chanatron1000 wrote:

Usually if a preschool kid's T-shirt is very worn, it means they really love it and it brings them joy. I would never want to take that away from a kid.

Agreed!! It also means that their mother listens to their child and puts their needs first. One of my kids has a shirt that they love because it’s really soft and it meets their sensory preferences. Ok… so they wear it a lot.

amother

Wine

Mon, Apr 15 2024, 8:36 am

Look, I grew up OOT. Wore hand-me-downs from my sister who was almost a decade older than me, and no one ever noticed. I was oblivious and loved growing into a new "wardrobe" each year that my mother had packed away.

I went to a very MO camp one year as a tween. And was 100% judged and made fun of for my clothing. I owned a pair of Shabbos shoes -- everyone else had multiple pairs, all different styles. Everyone was super into clothes there. I had no friends (and I had plenty in school, and made plenty in a different, non-MO camp the next year even thought I wore the same type of clothing), and people were incredibly snobby towards me because of my "ugly" clothing.

So I could look at the MO world and say that obviously they are all judgemental and only care about externals. But here's the thing. Although I'm no longer MO, I still have many friends and relatives who are, and who live in different communities, including in the tristate area. The vast majority of them are not focused on externals AT ALL, so I know that my issues were with the specific girls in my bunk in camp, and not with the MO world in general.

On this website, though, there are plenty of people who don't have a close connection with anyone in Lakewood. (Honestly, I am one of them.) So they assume that based on these posts, Lakewood is a shallow, judgy place.

And sure, there may be a subgroup in Lakewood that is very into looking a certain way. But I have no reason to paint the entire city with that brush. In fact, the two people I know who live there (both people I haven't really "known" since I was a teenager, but they got married and moved there and I've seen them a couple of times since then in passing) are the completely opposite of what is being described here. I would be extremely surprised if one of them even knew what a name-brand was. The other one would probably be against buying them on principle.

Just my thoughts on the subject.