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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
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B'Syata D'Shmya
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 Sun, Feb 18 2024, 8:23 pm
| amother Emerald wrote: | The food thing may have any of several explanations:
1. She is very very strict about which hechsherim she accepts and isn't sure about you. So she won't eat the cake you baked or even the one you bought and cut with your knife.
RIDICULOUS!! Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zatzal instructed you cant even ask your host about hechsherim, if the home is Shomer Shabbos. They are family after all. If they dont want to eat a specific food - say your meat or your broccoli, they can eat around it, but to embarrass a hostess by refusing to eat is worse.
2. She has a mental thing about eating in front of people she doesn't know well, or about noshing in front of people, period. Maybe she hides nosh in her room at home and eats on the sly, even hiding this from her dh.
This is an extreme and doesnt explain her not socializing with new SIL and hostess. Its rude.
3. She is always hungry and a midnight snacker. Rather than get dressed in the middle of the night or risk running into someone while wearing a robe, snood, and face glop, she chooses to bring provisions from home and consume them in private.
4. She still gets a kick out of "sneaking around" with her dh, and these secret picnics are something they do for fun. All the time.
Bad habit and rude guests.
Lacking a vivid imagination, I can only come up with these four, but there are probably other possibilities.
You are looking for unicorns rather than seeing the horses in front of your nose. Its just a bad habit that happened once and they may not know how to be guests/family etc. If OP wants she can straight up ask, "when you come, we are so excited to host you and get to know you better, we'd love it if you can spend more time with us as well."
None of which matters because, unless they're making noises that disturb your family, damaging your property e.g. getting grease spots on the linens, or attracting vermin by leaving food waste in the room, what they do there and why is nobody's business but their own. |
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imanotmommy
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Sun, Feb 18 2024, 8:32 pm
OP said she's not bothered by this situation, so it doesn't seem like telling her "your sister-in-law is rude" is in any way helpful.
OP, I think it's really nice that you're willing to host and that you want your sister-in-law to be as comfortable as possible! Since you don't know why she's acting the way she is, the best plan would probably be to continue to demonstrate that they're welcome to join, and perhaps NOT comment directly about her "hiding".
If it does start to bother you, then it's different...
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DREAMING
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Sun, Feb 18 2024, 8:50 pm
| amother OP wrote: | | It just feels weird to make it so official because until they got married my brother in law played with the kids and now to suddenly ‘invite’ him to sit with us just seems awkward |
He played with the kids at your house?
Regardless if you want something to change you have to change something. So invite them for oneg is one way. Or as someone else suggested for one seudah or do something together motzai shabbos. Or invite them to stay for pizza or sushi or ice cream….
Or leave the situation as is if you are ok with that.
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amother
Bronze
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Sun, Feb 18 2024, 9:26 pm
Please! Let her be and leave things as is.
She has to be “on” the whole time at the in laws.
Please let her have some “off” time where she doesn’t have to socialize when she’s by you.
Some people need that down time.
I know I would.
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amother
Vanilla
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Sun, Feb 18 2024, 10:49 pm
Not weird bec they’re newly married
She’s for sure sleeping in
What time are they leaving your house? 11:30? It’s not like she’s in there until 1:30
I still bring nosh with me when I go to my in laws. She’s not going to raid your nosh cabinet , you know.
She needs downtime from sitting with her in-laws and new family most of the day
That being said, they should say good shabbos, 5 min chit chat on their way out.
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WhatFor
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Sun, Feb 18 2024, 11:30 pm
Why don't you invite them to spend the entire Shabbat with you including meals? Just say something like, "we barely get to spend time with you and would love to host you one week for the meals as well. Does two weeks from now work?"
Your other guests who are more friendly are probably having a meal with you, right? There is this general concept that when someone is hosting you just for accommodations and not meals, they don't really want you hanging out (see the endless threads on here on this topic.) And I know that this is totally different because you're not a stranger, you're family. But it feels like they're behaving in a way that is more appropriate in those circumstances. Maybe it's something majorly off, but maybe it's just the shy thing coupled with not knowing you, and they need more outreach to break the ice. I'd give it a shot.
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WhatFor
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Sun, Feb 18 2024, 11:34 pm
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Also just want to add that we're all focusing on the SIL's behavior, but really it's the bil's family, and it sounds like he does the same. So she might be taking his lead. Or it might be a combo of her personality plus following his lead. But because it's his family, it's natural that if he doesn't come out much, she wouldn't either.
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Rappel
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Sun, Feb 18 2024, 11:36 pm
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They're newlywed! If they're bringing food with them, then it's the difference between getting dressed and going out to socialize, or staying casual with her husband. They'll come out of their shell once they have a kid
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salt
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Sun, Feb 18 2024, 11:36 pm
Invite them one time to eat one meal by you - either with your parents-in-law too, or without.
And inviting them out of their room to join a game doesn't have to be so official - just call from outside the room - "hey, we're starting a game of snakes and ladders, come join!"
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amother
Fern
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Sun, Feb 18 2024, 11:48 pm
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I think it is rude for her not to empty the trash bin in the room that she and your BIL used. I even do this in an Airbnb where I pay a cleaning fee. You are not her maid. This SIL needs a lesson in etiquette but it is better to not say anything.
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Oak
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Mon, Feb 19 2024, 12:01 am
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A reason she might be like this when your others guests are not, could be because she feels a pressure to have a good relationship with you, and that could be overwhelming..?
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Queen Of Hearts
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Mon, Feb 19 2024, 12:06 am
I vote leave them alone.
Her behavior may be strange and unsocial. But that's obviously what this couple wants right now.
Be extra friendly and welcoming but don't pressure them to join you for any activities or schmoozing.
Remember by the time they return to your home they probably feel like they did enough socializing with others.
This may just be a case of newlyweds in the clouds.
Or it may not. Time will tell.
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imaima
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Mon, Feb 19 2024, 1:31 am
| amother OP wrote: | | It’s been happening since two weeks after their wedding so probably not |
Sounds just like newlyweds or she wants to read in bed. Maybe she doesn’t like the fuss of your babies or she thinks she should stay away not to disturb you
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amother
Eggshell
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Mon, Feb 19 2024, 1:32 am
I would invite them for one of the meals. I think eating together will help break the ice and make them more comfortable wandering around your house. It's quite intimidating being newlywed and having to interact with these people you don't know as family. Give them time and be friendly without being too pushy.
If you or dh has a good enough relationship with your bil, you can ask him whether there's anything you can do to make his wife feel more comfortable.
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amother
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Mon, Feb 19 2024, 1:44 am
Having them over for a Shabbos meal isn’t really done in our circles so that’s out of the question.
About taking out the garbage, I don’t mind in the slightest, they probably forget since they have to pack up all their things after shabbos and are in a rush to catch the bus home.
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imaima
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Mon, Feb 19 2024, 1:48 am
| amother OP wrote: | | That’s what we’ve been doing and they seem happy enough. They keep coming back even weeks when there’s room in my in laws home. |
She must be even more terrified of her MIL.
I feel like in the age of excessive information, people form legends about in-law relationships before even having any in-laws.
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WhatFor
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Mon, Feb 19 2024, 1:48 am
| amother OP wrote: | Having them over for a Shabbos meal isn’t really done in our circles so that’s out of the question.
About taking out the garbage, I don’t mind in the slightest, they probably forget since they have to pack up all their things after shabbos and are in a rush to catch the bus home. |
You sound like a patient and accommodating host. I'm just really curious what circles a bil and his wife would sleep in your house but not have meals with you? I've never heard of that.
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amother
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Mon, Feb 19 2024, 1:51 am
| WhatFor wrote: | | You sound like a patient and accommodating host. I'm just really curious what circles a bil and his wife would sleep in your house but not have meals with you? I've never heard of that. |
Israeli Chareidy. Couple seudas are just not a thing until there are some older children.
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amother
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Mon, Feb 19 2024, 1:57 am
| B'Syata D'Shmya wrote: | Perhaps they feel that they are bothering you enough and dont want to make a burden of themselves. Have you tried inviting new SIL for morning coffee on Shabbos or the like? Or suggesting you double date motzai Shabbos. You can ask her help with the kids to break the ice. Make sure you are complimentary, have an open ear and tell her you want her to feel comfortable etc.
BTW, I tell any guest that I dont want them to eat in the room, its an iron clad rule in my home, so that would force any guest to sit and eat with us...all understand, although I do get annoyed if I find crumbs on the mattress, and wrappers in the garbage....but thats not your problem.
Since Pesach is coming its OK to tell them, no food in the room- only LR/DR... |
I’m torn between repeatedly inviting them to sit with us and just letting it be and waiting for them to initiate. Wouldn’t want to them to feel forced.
It’s just my first time experiencing such shyness from someone.
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WhatFor
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Mon, Feb 19 2024, 2:29 am
| amother OP wrote: | | Israeli Chareidy. Couple seudas are just not a thing until there are some older children. |
I'll accept what you're saying as is, even though I've been to Israeli chareidi houses where siblings were at each others houses for meals (granted, can't remember the ages of all kids at the time).
But is it possible she's confused about what she's supposed to be doing then? Yes to hanging out together, no to having meals is a confusing dynamic in my head. And granted, maybe she comes from these circles so it's less confusing, but she only recently got married so she's still new to what she's supposed to be doing and it might be overwhelming. If I were in my late-teens/early-twenties and in a community where there were a lot of unspoken nuances between what's "done" and not, I could see myself getting anxious and just avoiding everyone to avoid offending anyone. But I'm the type of person who often missed unspoken nuances.
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