S/O midwinter - needing permission from school

essie14

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 10:51 pm

I grew up frum and never went to a school that had rules like where you can go on vacation or never taking a day off.
If an event was discussed with the administration beforehand, it was OK.
Obviously no excessive time off, but that would be in public school as well.
The schools I send my children to are the same. We don't inform the school where we go on vacation, they don't care.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 11:28 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

But why do you care why my kid misses school? It’s my own kids responsibility.

Except it falls on the teachers to catch them up, helping them make copies of whatever they are missing, arranging for someone to go over the material, scheduling any makeup tests. It’s all part of being a teacher but it’s not so nice to ask people to go the extra mile just for vacations.

amother

Seafoam ↓

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 4:35 am

amother OP wrote:

I didn’t grow up frum and am wondering - why do frum schools get to dictate whether a parent can take a child out for a family trip (like when he other children in the family have midwinter break)?

Am I alone in thinking it’s overreach?

Where I live public schools have the same policy, they do not allow parents to take children out of school, not even for one day, except when they are ill. For anything else, they have to write to the school authority (not even the school itself) and ask beforehand. In general, they refuse, they allow it only in very exceptional cases. They won't allow it just to go on holyday.

If parents do it regardless, they might have to pay fines, which might be rather high, I heard cases where it was around 1000$.

amother

↑ Catmint

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 4:45 am

amother Seafoam wrote:

What country is this in?
This would be in conflict with American law so I can’t imagine this is in the US .

↑ Ema of 5 ↓

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 4:54 am

notshanarishona wrote:

It is the student’s responsibility to make sure they make everything up. The only copies teachers should have to make are of handouts, and they should already have those, they shouldn’t have to make extras. I have never had a teacher who arranged for someone to go over missed material with my child, or run after my child to arrange a make up test. That is the student’s responsibility.

amother

Pistachio

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 5:20 am

Um guys, do you live in America, where we are always complaining about how long summer vacation is?! Usually the kids have off 11-12 weeks!!! Go on vacation then!! Honestly, everyone will survive just fine without going on vacation during midwinter!

amother

↑ Seafoam

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 5:59 am

amother Catmint wrote:

What country is this in?
This would be in conflict with American law so I can’t imagine this is in the US .

Well, obviously it is not in the USA, it's in Europe, Switzerland to be precise.

But, pray tell, why would it be in conflict with American law? Don't you have a concept of mandatory school, for ages 6 to 15 or something like that?
So if school is mandatory, this implies that parents are obliged to send children to school.

In my view, what they do in Switzerland (where it might differ from canton to canton and even from community to community, since mandatory schooling is organised and financed at the community level), this is just a different interpretation of the word "mandatory", but it is not in contradiction with any civil liberty.

Actually the persons who form school authority responsable for absence managment (among others) are elected at a grass root level, by the population of the school district.

↑ Ema of 5 ↓

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:12 am

amother Pistachio wrote:

My kids don’t need a break in the summer as much as they need it in the winter. Also, my kids have off about 10 weeks, not 11-12. And I don’t complain about it.

amother

↑ Magnolia

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:15 am

amother Pistachio wrote:

My kids need a break now. School is long and boring and draining and they are burned out. It won't help them to take a vacation in a few months

peace2

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 9:26 am

I think it's interesting to see the different threads running concurrently where you have posters on one complaining about schools' overreach and how their students' vacation plans are not the business of the school, and then on the other thread you have posters complaining that their kids feel pressure from everyone in their class traveling and getting responses telling them that their kids' school should step in and make rules about this if it's getting out of hand... just seems like the schools can't really do anything right

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 10:11 am

notshanarishona wrote:

The bolded is a pretty dismissive view of an important part in some people’s lives.

Re making things up, that’s the student’s responsibility. Do you also get upset when your coworker takes off from work “just for vacation”?

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 10:16 am

peace2 wrote:

Honestly the more I read people’s responses the more I get the sense that some people are just sour that other people are not stuck like they are and feel that if they can’t experience the good things in life no one else should be allowed to either.

lamplighter

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 10:31 am

Honestly it's because people take advantage. That's often what happens, too many people take advantage and then the one or two that actually are legit lose out.
In some places if schools didn't make these rules, there would be a revolving door of students attending. So many simchas, relatives, mental health breaks....it would be endless. It probably is already even with these rules.
School should be taken seriously and in many homes and communities it isnt. Just like you need to excused from work, you need to be excused from school. I don't see what the big deal is. It's not babysitting service, it's a school.

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 10:39 am

I have unlimited PTO at work. It of course means different things at different companies, but I know for me it means I can easily do 8 weeks a year where no one blinks an eye. I have autonomy to choose when to take off. I don’t ask for permission, I just tell my manager I’ll be out.

Why should school be more stringent than work? Let kids breathe. How about giving them 7 days a year they can decide how to use of excused absences? I can’t imagine being expected to show up to work every single day the company is open with zero tolerance for absence.

amother

↑ Marigold

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 10:41 am

amother Tulip wrote:

Are there downsides to this?

amother

↑ Coral

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 11:48 am

peace2 wrote:

I think there is a way to make boundaries.

Saying not go anywhere is an overreach and not allowing people to visit family IMO is also an overreach. It's not an overreach to make a ban on "friend trips" as it's not appropriate for teens to go on vacation without an adult and it can cause strife within the class if some people are invited and others not.

In terms of the pressure, yes, I think there is TONS of pressure. There is with everything though. That's life. If it's not vacations, it'll be something else. I don't think it's appropriate to take away everyone's choice because other people can't afford it.

↑ notshanarishona ↓

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 12:00 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

And yes it’s the students responsibility but typically I make 5-10 extra copies of something. If they aren’t used, extra is given to kids who lose them, spill, make them dirty, mess up , etc. to go and find all the worksheets given out from the last week does take a certain amount of organization, and that’s besides the struggle of having a kid in class totally confused.
Yes, I would be frustrated if my coworker took off and requested for me to cover for her for vacation. I would happily cover if her kids were sick or she went to take care of her ailing mother or she was sick. We all need so many days because of things out of our control. Vacation can easily be planned.

↑ notshanarishona

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 12:03 pm

amother Magnolia wrote:

My kids need a break now. School is long and boring and draining and they are burned out. It won't help them to take a vacation in a few months

Winter vacation is in less than a week..

↑ Ema of 5

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 2:03 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

Winter vacation is in less than a week..

And summer is 5 months away. BH I don’t send to schools that severely punish if a kid misses a day after winter vacation. That being said, if all schools in one city/area- boys, girls, co-ed, right wing, mo- don’t coordinate their vacation times, it’s not right to punish a child if they miss one day after vacation. I have one kid who has vacation completely separate from when my others have. I don’t blame the school though, because it’s not local. I can’t expect a school in a different city to coordinate with schools in my city.