S/O midwinter - needing permission from school

Bleemee

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 3:04 pm

amother Peachpuff wrote:

I will admit that I have lied to my kids school and said they were sick, just so we could take a break as a family and have a vacation. Even got a doctor's note. It's my family and I will try to respect the school rules but sometimes, we need a break. With different schedules and various health issues, if we get a miracle and have a long weekend to go away-we will. My kids, on the other hand, hate missing school so it's rare that they indulge me.

A nosy question- how do you get the note?

amother

Marigold ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 3:05 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

Lol, nope. I’m assuming you don’t live in Lakewood
My sons school absolutely doesn’t allow. When we did take an extended midwinter vacation to Florida (they missed Monday, they were only off Fri-Sun) we had serious serious issues with the school. The principal called multiple times, I will not repeat the conversations that took place. I was very scared of being kicked out, we were pretty close to it (before that we had a perfect relationship with the school)
I was also scared that my next kids wouldn’t be accepted even though I sent a few boys there already
Suffice is to say we gave a big donation that we couldn’t afford at that years dinner 🤦‍♀️
I do not believe this of all the schools, but yea, there went my innocence

Wow what was the handbook rule?

↑ tigerwife

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 3:11 pm

amother Catmint wrote:

Again, my family isn’t frum. I need to see them when it isn’t yomtov . I’ve said this a bunch of times.

Oh, I misunderstood.
We have a very short midwinter break but I didn’t grow up traveling for the break and I’m probably not going to make that a standard for my kids. We usually have time off between camp and school so that would be when we take a vacation or go visiting.

amother

↑ Marigold ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 3:15 pm

mha3484 wrote:

From my personal opinion as a BT for many years, this is why I live OOT where the schools are used to this and midwinter is 5 school days, and everyone is on the same schedule. Some years they send an email discussing your choice of vacation plans (this year actually they skipped that) but over all its less micromanaging. If you are reasonable the schools are reasonable back. I have taken my boys out on the afternoon of thanksgiving/ July 4th etc and no one cared.

I think there is a greater realization here that we all have different family situations and for many midwinter is a more ideal time for seeing grandparents then chol ha moed or summer. We also dont have bar mitzvah rules because for many of us the standard will leave our boys with a party of no one.

You chose to live out of town for this reason? Less micromanaging vacation?

↑ mha3484 ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 3:22 pm

It’s not just vacation it’s a general culture that for me is much better. Less micromanaging, I was able to make my sons bar mitzvah the way that worked for my family vs a school rule that works fine for ffb families with a ton of frum relatives and doesn't work for my son with no cousins.

I think the culture is better suited for someone who didn't grow up frum. Its just my experience obviously.

amother

↑ Stoneblue

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 3:26 pm

amother Catmint wrote:

Again, my family isn’t frum. I need to see them when it isn’t yomtov . I’ve said this a bunch of times.

I get up with not from grandparents and we went to them for a week in the summer only. Not because school had rules but because going multiple times a year with a family was expensive and just not practical especially with working parents.
Are so many people really flying or driving very long distances to visit grandparents so many times a year?

↑ mha3484

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 3:29 pm

amother Stoneblue wrote:

No. Based on when tishrei is, a lot us cant take a week off in August after camp when our offices are closed almost the whole september. So it leaves winter as the ideal time for a trip.

amother

↑ Coral ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 3:32 pm

amother Daffodil wrote:

I could understand families wanting freedom to do family trips but when highschool girls do vacations together and other girls are left out thats when the school could step in. Personally I dreaded midwinter as a teen. I was not invited to the cliquey trips and my family did not do anything. I sat at home depressed

They should make a rule that there are no girls trips. It should be considered family time and there should be serious ramifications if girls are found to have gone together. Same for bachurim.

amother

↑ Catmint ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 3:36 pm

amother Stoneblue wrote:

Living in town, I frankly don’t know anyone but myself and DH That doesn’t see grandparents multiple times (most people is like… 30 times lol) a year. That being said, my immediate family is in two different states each a flight away, and my husbands is in one state and a different country. So we could I guess do a rotation and see each of them on every four years. Really the schedule here works great for FFB in town people but for others it’s logistically very difficult.

amother

Tulip ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:04 pm

amother OP wrote:

I didn’t grow up frum and am wondering - why do frum schools get to dictate whether a parent can take a child out for a family trip (like when he other children in the family have midwinter break)?

Am I alone in thinking it’s overreach?

I have a more basic question. How can a school require 100% attendance, without any leeway on absences? And why can’t parents have autonomy over how to use those absences?

ETA: NYC DOE does not penalize students for any absences (yes, unlimited absences, just students need to be responsible and get missed homework and assignments) , why do our schools need to be more stringent on this?

amother

Sunflower ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:23 pm

amother Magnolia wrote:

That always seemed so unfair to me. So a family that does not have relatives in Florida should never be able to go?

And very often the "visiting grandparents" is just an excuse to have a grand vacation in Florida.

You can’t compare visiting family to a random Florida trip. Imo that’s exactly where the line should be drawn.

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:27 pm

amother Sunflower wrote:

You can’t compare visiting family to a random Florida trip. Imo that’s exactly where the line should be drawn.

That’s your opinion. You’re welcome to limit random Florida trips for your kids. But why do you care why other students are absent?

Ema of 5 ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:27 pm

amother OP wrote:

By dictate I mean make the rules and allow/disallow things.

Of course I think it makes sense to let the school know if your child will be out for an extended amount of time, or even home for 1 day if they’re sick. My question is more about - why do schools get to decide whether a student is or is not allowed to take off time to go on a family trip for a few days.

No school appreciates when you pull a child out for a non-school vacation, even if there is nothing in the handbook. At the end of the day there is really nothing they can do to stop you, but they can very highly discourage it. My girls have the same vacation. One of my boys overlaps that and then has a few more days, and one just has off Friday- Monday. If we want to go anywhere, there is a good chance someone will miss school for a day or two.

Last edited by Ema of 5 on Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ Ema of 5 ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:29 pm

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

You can always take a child out of school. The question is is the absence excused in terms of work and attendance record.

Meaning if it falls under the school's justification for reasons to miss, not that they're just missing school, which would cause them to fall behind or think that they should just be exempt from all the classwork their classmates had to do.

Most of the time students are still required to make up the work including tests and quizzes, but if it's a partially excused or fully excused absence often teachers will make accommodations.

What would constitute a partially excused absence?

amother

↑ Tulip ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:34 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

No school appreciates when you pull a child out for a non-school vacation, even if there is nothing in the handbook. At the end of the day there is really nothing they can do to stop you, but they can very highly discourage it. My girls have the same vacation. One of my boys overlaps that got a few days, and one just has off Friday- Monday. If we want to go anywhere, there is a good chance someone will miss school for a day or two.

Why does no one appreciate it?

amother

↑ Sunflower ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:36 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

That’s your opinion. You’re welcome to limit random Florida trips for your kids. But why do you care why other students are absent?

I wasn’t referring to absences. The school rule here is that you can’t go to Florida at all even if you won’t miss any school. Thankfully there is an exception for relatives because I would feel bad for people who can’t see their family just because the frum community has a shtick of randomly jetting off to Florida.

My kids have never been to Florida. It’s such a stupid destination. The entire community flying together on the plane, hanging out at the same hotels and restaurants. No thanks.

The last thing I need is for my kids to complain that we’re the only ones not going. Thankfully it’s not allowed so the people who ignore the rules keep quiet about it.

behappy2

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:36 pm

amother OP wrote:

Wow that really sounds like overreach. Don’t have kids in school yet but now I’m getting worried. I am one of my parents’ two children, my sibling doesn’t plan on having kids (at least as of now), and my folks live across the country. I’ve heard some schools make rules about not going to specific states like Florida, California, etc. There’s no way I would agree to never take my kids to visit my parents because the school decided that they don’t allow that, or they they don’t allow a day off occasionally (I’m talking 1-3 times a year if at all). I wonder if the rules were made on the assumption that for most students, grandparents and extended family members are nearby enough that no one would have to take longer than a couple hours to get to or from where they live. To get to my parents it’s an entire day’s worth of travel, and then an entire day’s worth of travel back.

I understand the schools having rules like don’t miss more than x days per semester, or guidelines for making up missed work, but beyond that seems a little ridiculous.

Every school will allow a child to visit to their grandparents and you definitely can take your kid away for an extra day out of town. Schools know that kids will be absent a day before and after midwinter. You don't need to follow every rule perfectly.

↑ Ema of 5 ↓

Mon, Jan 22 2024, 4:37 pm

amother Lightyellow wrote:

I was talking about elementary school

And all those people discussing unexcused affecting your grade, that’s not what is being discussed here
We’re discussing potentially being kicked out of school and losing your good relationship with the school

That’s awful! A school would kick out a student who is otherwise doing well, because they went away with their family for one day???? Do they not understand the repercussions??? There is a special place for such people.