How to convey that actions have consequences?

amother

↑ Chartreuse

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 10:16 am

amother OP wrote:

You seem very knowledgeable and levelheaded. I really appreciate your input.

I don’t feel like I’m associating her actions with my trauma. How would a “healthy” mom react to such a scenario? That’s my question.

You mean the perfect, ideal mom? Haven't met one IRL but I think I know what she could do.

She may give her daughter a few minutes to cry. During that time, mom would take some deep breaths, a cup of tea, something she enjoys, and get herself calm and regulated. Then she would sit next to her daughter silently for a few more minutes. Afterwards, she would talk. Gently calmly and quietly she would say, I see you're upset. It's okay to feel upset. It's okay to cry. Right now, you're a little loud and it's waking up the other children. You have some choices. We could do an activity together to feel better, like listen to music or bake or read a book. You can cry quietly by yourself. Or I can sit next to you for a few more minutes while you calm down.

I would do this a few times over the course of a week, So she can process and integrate your new approach. After the first few times, if she continues to cry loudly and not pick one of your healthier choices, you can enforce a consequence of your choice if she continues to be loud and wake the other children. But it probably won't come to that.

You're giving the message that strong feelings are okay. They don't scare you and they don't have to scare her. You're giving her options to calm herself down. She may not be able to do that- I know I would cry for hours even up into my 20s, until I learned skills to divert myself. And you're also setting a boundary to protect your family and your other children.

This is not the only way. It's just an example of a healthy approach for an idealized mom. Of course none of us are perfect, but maybe this will give you some ideas.

amother

↑ Daisy ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 12:38 pm

amother DarkCyan wrote:

Is this a joke? Tell her and poof! That will take care of the issue?! Youve got to be kidding. This is really really really not helpful and really really really clueless. And that's being nice.

No, it's not a joke and it's not clueless. Crying is a behavior like any other. She can learn to be considerate of the family and either cry quietly, or get a consequence. She's a preteen, not a newborn.
And if she has sad feelings, her mother should make herself available for discussion of those feelings.

amother

Indigo ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 1:11 pm

This sounds like my son who has ADHD and therefore is very impulsive. And then he feels bad that he did something wrong. Ill sit with him,let him be upset, but not tell him its ok. I tell him I still love him, reassure him that everyone struggles with doing the right thing sometimes, and walk him through what he can do in the future to help prevent doing the wrong thing. Then I'll sit and read to him or sit with him whils he falls asleep (bec of his adhd he sometimes does have a very hard time falling asleep).

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 1:13 pm

amother Indigo wrote:

I think I have undiagnosed adhd so she might too.

She needs to me to say the words I’m not upset at her in order to be able to fall asleep. I tell her that but I still tell her I’m disappointed that she made a wrong choice.

She also struggles falling asleep.

How did you get a diagnosis? And do you give him meds?

amother

↑ Indigo ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 1:17 pm

amother OP wrote:

We had a neuropsych eval. He is still young (only 6) and therefore we haven't needed to medicate yet, but plan to when needed.

amother

↑ Indigo

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 1:20 pm

amother OP wrote:

Is there any point in getting evaluated if I don’t plan on medicating?

How did you get knowledge how to deal with him? Books etc?

Honestly I'm still learning, but I try to just listen to his needs. My dh also has severe ADHD so he gives a lot of insight. We really got a lot of good and informative info from his eval and it could help kids get an IEP in school or have more targeted therapy with a diagnosis.

amother

Cyan

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 7:54 pm

amother OP wrote:

Definitely has anxiety. I haven’t come across ocd yet. She doesn’t have ocd in other areas. Just the opposite, she’s extremely absent minded.

I am the last person to diagnose someone over the computer, but just to be clear- OCD has nothing to do with absentminded. consistent non stop tantrums can be OCD as well. definitely speak to her therapist!

amother

Buttercup ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 8:21 pm

I think she wants you to talk to her.

If I understand correctly:

She does something bad.
You catch her.
You don't say anything, scold, or punish, but maybe scowl and walk away.
She cries.

IMO I think she wants you to address her, say something like "Sarah, no tiktok. Why did you log in again when I've told you not to?"
Her -- "But mom, I can't resist because one of my friends made one and I had to see what she said."
You -- "I don't want you watching tiktop because xyz. If you feel like maybe there should be an exception, talk to me about it it, don't just break the rule. What do you think we should do to help you not break this rule in the future?"

And then it sounds like she definitely wants you to say something like "nobody is perfect. You are generally a good girl and you have so many good qualities. I see the issue is xyz is a hard one for you right now, but I believe in your ability to overcome it. Will you promise me try to do better next time?"

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 8:24 pm

amother Buttercup wrote:

I’ve told her these exact same words last night.

amother

↑ Buttercup ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 8:38 pm

amother OP wrote:

She calmed down because I told her I’m not upset. But this won’t hold her back from breaking a rule again and crying again. Same cycle repeats itself

Did you ask her what she thinks will help her not break the rule again?

And did you ask her to try to do better next time and she agreed?

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 9:04 pm

amother Buttercup wrote:

Did you ask her what she thinks will help her not break the rule again?

And did you ask her to try to do better next time and she agreed?

She said she will try to remember that I get “upset” (strict). Obviously that’s not a strong enough deterrent and it makes me think she’s a people pleaser.

She always promises to do better.

amother

↑ OP

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 9:10 pm

amother Daisy wrote:

You're setting the poor girl up for failure by not having a system or boundary to prevent her from tripping up on the same rule again and again. Do something to help her, like putting parental controls on her phone or locking away the offending device when she shouldn't be using it.

You’re assuming it’s a device. I never said that. And it’s not the same rule over and over. It’s different ones.

In general, she has a problem obeying and when confronted she cries hysterically, needs me to reassure her that I’m not upset, promises to do better and then slips up again.

I’m most definitely not setting her up for failure. I’m open to learning how to best help her.

She’s otherwise a bright, mature and smart girl.

amother

↑ Buttercup ↓

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 9:20 pm

amother OP wrote:

She said she will try to remember that I get “upset” (strict). Obviously that’s not a strong enough deterrent and it makes me think she’s a people pleaser.

She always promises to do better.

Hmmm... so I think she does understand that actions have consequences, the consequence (at least one of them) is that you get upset which makes her upset, and she does understand that. The problem is that she is still very disobedient.

Honestly, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe a different consequence? Maybe something to prevent her from disobeying, not just a consequence after she already does? Maybe it's just a stage she needs to pass?

It sounds to me like you have a pretty good relationship. She obviously loves and respects you. If she didn't respect you, she'd just be happy she didn't get punished and not be at all bothered by your barely expressed disapproval. You seem to care a lot about her and be intune to her emotions even when it's driving you crazy.

amother

↑ Buttercup

Wed, Dec 13 2023, 9:24 pm

How serious are her infractures? Anything dangerous or a major infraction? Or just a bunch of annoying minor stuff.

If it's a lot of annoying minor stuff, as much ad I hate to say it, it may be like how a bunch of us try to cut out sugar, get more exercise, spend less time on our phones, and most of the time we struggle with these and give into temptation, and it's annoying but it's not the end of the world, and there's not really a solution, but hopefully those who love us will be accepting and look past our flaws.

spikta

Thu, Dec 14 2023, 5:52 am

My 2 c:
Whatever it is that you're expecting from her, it's clearly beyond her ability right now to regulate herself away from it, so you need to be the one holding the boundary. Not by being disappointed in her after she breaks the rule, but by doing more to enforce the rule so she can't break it.

Imagine she was a 1 year old that kept touching the stove buttons. You say no once, twice, if it doesn't work you put protectors on, and keep the kitchen door shut so she can't get in. There's no disappointment because it's not realistic to expect a toddler to understand fire safety. I think you need to adjust your attitude similarly. Your daughter isn't capable of not breaking XYZ rules without you putting boundaries in place. There's no point in being disappointed, you know it's going to happen again. You being quite and somber after you catch her, to her feels like guilt tripping her for what you already know she can't do.

So in this case, the consequence of her actions, which I think she'd ultimately appreciate, because she's so clearly distraught by your disappointment, is that she has less freedom to transgress. Whether that means blockers on a phone or computer, technology time only being in a public space where it can be monitored, whatever. She doesn't seem to be ready for the amount of independence you're giving her, and that's OK. She'll get there eventually.