S/O Jewish Music: Which songs are from non-Jewish sources?

amother

↑ Springgreen ↓

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 8:45 am

amother Butterscotch wrote:

He couldn’t pick from any other country? He was anamored with a GERMAN song??

I heard (though I don't know if it's true) that someone sold him the song not telling him the origin.

amother

Oleander

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 8:58 am

amother Butterscotch wrote:

A poster above seems to be saying it’s not too difficult to compose a song. Well if it’s so easy why can’t many of the Jewish singers do it?

A number of years ago I was in a Monsey kosher supermarket and they had a boys choir in Yiddish playing on the speaker. One song seemed so familiar, I couldn’t place where I knew that tune from. By the time I finished shopping and got into my car I was singing the song in it’s original Hebrew. Wonder how the parents would feel if they knew the song their kids were singing was from a Zionist singer.

Because most Jewish singers today simply have good voices. That doesn't mean they understand music theory or have the capacity to write their own compositions. That is a completely separate skillset.

↑ imasinger

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 8:59 am

amother Springgreen wrote:

Yeah, and you can tell which ones, because their songs sound good.

The world of music is far too wide for that opinion to be justified.

I challenge you to have someone play 5 unfamiliar songs to you, by performers you don't know, a mix of covers and originally compositions, and you guess which are being performed by their original writer/composer.

amother

Chicory

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 9:03 am

My family member made a childrens cd, and they translated old macdonald to Yiddish. They called and asked a Sheila if it was allowed and they were told if the words have meaning and it’s not a trashy tune you can elevate a non Jewish tune and make it into a Jewish song.

amother

Mintgreen

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 9:20 am

amother Royalblue wrote:

Maoz Tzur

Tune of this one and some of the others are not an exact match of jewish tunes. Probably different piano notes. The catchy tune songs helped me remember words of tanach. You have to be talented to switch things up and produce a catchy it song. I don't feel cheated.

amother

NeonOrange ↓

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 9:59 am

imasinger wrote:

Reminds me of the story on the old blog Tales Out of Bais Yaakov. The teacher in charge of overseeing a performance was very picky about the music and insisted it must be refined and appropriate, certainly nothing secular sounding. So none of the fast , catchy Jewish tunes would do. One selection the girls ran by her got instant approval for being refined and Jewish sounding. Only little did she know it was the melody for an X-mas song.....

miami85 ↓

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 11:36 am

The answer is that there has never really been official "Jewish music"--as far as we can tell, Jews have adopted the music of their home country going back to the Greeks.

We believe in elevating the mundane to make it more holy that has been the justification of
"borrowing" popular music.

So if you like certain rhythms and beats, instead of "c'est la vie" you listen to "Hashem Melech"

amother

↑ Springgreen

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 12:25 pm

imasinger wrote:

I'm not referring to cover songs, but to songs that are not written by their original performer or by any real songwriter.

amother

↑ Strawberry

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 12:33 pm

miami85 wrote:

There absolutely was official Jewish music, the music of the Levi'im in the Beit Hamikdash. They had musical instruments and a choir. There's a mishna that lists the Levi'im's jobs and one was in charge of Shira. There's a mesora that Moshe Rabbeinu brought their niggunim down from Har Sinai. There's also the music David Hamelech composed for Tehillim.

There is an idea of elevating the mundane but also an idea of keeping our distance from the profane. Sometimes the line between is easy to see, as in some of the music videos posted. No person in their right mind thinks those performers or their work should be elevated. There are other types of music that might have a place in our homes, but in order to elevate something you have to be in an elevated place yourself, or at least in a position where you can reach the elevated place. Otherwise you'll just drag the impurity into the mud along with yourself.

amother

↑ Royalblue

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 12:44 pm

amother Mintgreen wrote:

The song probably got changed over the years, as many songs do.
It doesn’t mean that someone did it on purpose.
All you need is one teacher who sings off key, and teaches it to her students.

↑ miami85

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 12:57 pm

amother Strawberry wrote:

I meant modern times, but we don't really have a clear mesorah as to which tunes those were. Those tunes may have been lost as a "zecher l'churban" as "az yimale sichok pinu u'lishoneinu rina". But the idea of Jews borrowing tunes for music is quite a long-standing concept.

amother

Obsidian

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 1:37 pm

I haven't read the thread so I don't know if eitan katz was mentioned. But he is very passionate about not not having any non-Jewish inspiration in his music. I also love motty Steinmetz

I am not really one to to speak to because I listen not Jewish music. But when I listen to Jewish music I generally want it to be JEWISH. I like genuine music from the heart, Not "want-to-be", sensational, appeal to the masses to make a big buck type stuff thats saturating the "jewish" music scene.

amother

↑ Butterscotch ↓

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 3:07 pm

amother Springgreen wrote:

Wait, what? Cover songs have been around as long as songs have been around, and there's been mechanical license since piano rolls.

Secular people acknowledge the original song with their cover. Frum people leave out that information.

amother

↑ Butterscotch ↓

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 3:13 pm

miami85 wrote:

You wrote the word borrowing in quotes because you really mean “stealing”.

I don’t see how there can be any justification for not acknowledging the original composer on the back of the album/tape/cassette.
גניבת דעת

amother

↑ Butterscotch ↓

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 3:54 pm

amother Oleander wrote:

Because most Jewish singers today simply have good voices. That doesn't mean they understand music theory or have the capacity to write their own compositions. That is a completely separate skillset.

Of course!
But that has nothing to do with the fact that they don’t acknowledge the composer.

DallasIma

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 4:11 pm

I'm Sephardic, and a lot, lot, lot of our pizmonim and shul tunes come from Arabic songs (which I've listened to since babyhood). And most if not all of the original Arabic songs are love songs. I'm not fluent so I don't understand most of the words, but those were my cradle songs, and I love hearing them use those tunes in shul. I guess by Sephardim it's a different mindset.

amother

↑ NeonOrange

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 4:15 pm

amother Butterscotch wrote:

Unless it's in the public domain. Depends how old the song is and if it currently is copyrighted.

amother

Pistachio

Fri, Nov 04 2022, 4:52 pm

amother Royalblue wrote:

Song from Reb Yom Tov Erlich-

Der General

Thanks, I was looking for this. One of my favorites. I would say R Yom Tov Ehrlich's song is heavily inspired by this, but not straight out copied. A lot of teniyos are quite different.