Shocking: Pfizer says vax was never tested regarding stoppin

amother

Arcticblue ↓

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 2:06 pm

amother Azalea wrote:

You know covid can cause heart attacks. And the rates of heart attacks and strokes began skyrocketing among young people years before covid - when the ecigarette was introduced. But back then no one noticed or cared. They only care now because it suits their agenda.

Assuming the bolded is true.

The argument fails given that everyone was pushed to vaccinate without regard to whether they previously had covid and recovered.

If both covid and the vaccine cause increased risk of heart disease then it was especially reckless to persuade the covid recovered to vaccinate.

The Florida state surgeon general has just advised AGAINST men under 39 from vaccinating due to a clear increased risk of heart problems resulting from the vaccine.

amother

↑ Azalea ↓

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 2:36 pm

amother Arcticblue wrote:

It is true, and we were seeing it in 2020, before there were vaccines, and in 2021 in unvaccinated individuals, and we still see it, but most people aren't interested anymore so it doesn't make headlines. (Unlike the vaccine, which still does make headlines, because people ARE still interested in reading about it.)

Who was pushed to vaccinate and when is really dependent on location. But again, natural covid antibodies don't last forever anyways.

We knew around when the vaccine came out that it carried some of the same risks as covid, just in much lower numbers. Was it reckless to try to persuade those who had recovered to vaccinate? Well, that depends how long after they recovered they were pushed to vaccinate, and which strain was circulating at the time (regarding efficacy of the vaccine). But a second round of covid carries the same heart risk as the first round.

It's interesting that the FL SG took that step. Firstly that it took him until now to do it; secondly it's very interesting if he hasn't recommended against a specific vaccine but against all of them; thirdly that he deems the overall risks from covid for that gender and age group as less than the overall risks from the covid vaccine for that gender and age group. Too bad I can't get an interview with him, I'd love to pick his brain, because as surgeon general I'm sure he has a lot of inside info.

ChossidMom ↓

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 2:55 pm

Dr. John Campbell on this scandal. (For those that don't know - he used to be very pro Covid "vax").
He's pretty shocked. I don't think anyone can claim that noone said it would STOP transmission. Biden said it. Fauci said it. And so did all the politicians in Israel, the UK and everywhere else. Only later on they said that it doesn't prevent transmission but only lessens the symptoms (which also turned out to be absolute lies).
In any case, have a listen/watch:

amother

Blush

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 2:58 pm

amother Arcticblue wrote:

The Florida “study” is not a study at all.
It’s a pr stunt

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 4:17 pm

Of course the Florida surgeon general is speaking from fact based research. Which he concludes as do many that the “side effect” of cardiac arythmia does not override the risk benefit equation of healthy young men getting Covid. Brave and bold enough to speak the truth.

You disagree? Free world speak your opinion and make your own best decision.
Enough with the censorship already.

↑ NotInNJMommy

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 4:30 pm

amother Daylily wrote:

You are one of 2 posters who will defend the vaccine until the very end. Did you invest in Pfizer? Because I see no other reason for someone to defend a dangerous vaccine that has been proven ineffective time and time again.
2 people in my community died this month alone from heart attacks. They were both in their thirties. Fully vaxxed. When did we ever hear of so many young people falling dead like that? Are you really taking responsibility for those deaths?
The vaccine defenders keep bringing up “anonymous posting” because they have no other way to defend their twisted thinking, so this makes a great whataboutism. Stay on topic and talk the truth for a change.

I’m nowhere near bougie enough to invest in anything. For the greater part of my adult life I’ve been a single mother or single woman, providing for myself since I was 18 and living paycheck to paycheck, considered working poor. It’s ironic that I’m being labelled nasty and defamed by someone who yet again hides behind amother and needs to use ad hominem attacks and libel.

amother

↑ Arcticblue ↓

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 6:47 pm

amother Azalea wrote:

There were no guidelines anywhere that recommended people who previously had covid not take the vaccine. Is this really debatable?

But more to the point, this was a radical departure from how medicine is practiced. To promote a medical intervention that carries a severe risk without regard to the patient's individual risk from either the disease or the intervention.

The FL Surgeon General only recommended against the Mrna's.

amother

↑ Arcticblue ↓

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 6:55 pm

amother Blush wrote:

The Florida “study” is not a study at all.
It’s a pr stunt

Here's the study. It clearly says what it's limitations are, it's retrospective, but it is a study.
https://floridahealthcovid19.g......html

Based on its findings, there is a statistically significant increase in cardiac deaths within the 28 days after vaccination in males under 39. The Surgeon General appears to be erring on the side of caution.

amother

↑ Azalea ↓

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 6:57 pm

amother Arcticblue wrote:

Actually for a long time Israel would not give the vaccine to anyone who had had covid. And afterwards for even longer, you were limited to one dose if you were recorded as recovered.

It's not really departure from how medicine is practiced. It's just that we haven't had a pandemic in around a century, and things are different during a pandemic vs during normal times.

Thanks for the info about the FL surgeon general.

amother

↑ Calendula ↓

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 7:22 pm

amother Arcticblue wrote:

People who just had covid were actually forced to vaccinate or they lost their jobs. Maybe they got a 30 day grace period at most. It's interesting how people who were si pro vax are trying now to change what they said, what they meant etc...as if we are too dumb to remember. Stop making excuses and just apologize and admit you were wrong.

amother

↑ Azalea ↓

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 8:00 pm

amother Calendula wrote:

Not where I live.

And I don't think that what you are describing makes sense scientifically. But it's important to remember that just because some locations' governments handled this all wrong and not even in accordance with science, that does not mean that science was wrong or that Pfizer lied. It just means that your location's government are incompetent.

amother

↑ Arcticblue

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 8:23 pm

amother Azalea wrote:

My dh, who had antibodies, was required by his employer to vaccinate or lose his job, and then again to take the booster 6 months later.

The right of employers to do this fell under federal EEOC guidance.

Eta. I absolutely agree that the US federal government is incompetent.

amother

↑ Calendula ↓

Wed, Oct 12 2022, 8:26 pm

amother Azalea wrote:

Whether it makes sense or not, this was done. Many with high levels of antibodies were forced to vaccinate. And Pfizer did lie. Or they lied by omission which is a lie. Now people are trying to backtrack so they don't look so foolish. But it's too late.

amother

↑ Azalea ↓

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 12:27 am

amother Petunia wrote:

Mind boggling how people are continuing to vax/mask/talk about vaxxing and masking.

I don't mask anymore - haven't since the mandate was lifted, pretty much - because although I am a law-abiding citizen and I also care about other people and also about not making a chilul Hashem, I am also very sensory (so the masks are torture for me) and I'm very very sick of protecting other people when they can't be bothered to protect me.

My mask never really protected me, it just protected those around me from any germs I might have. And their masks protected me, not them. After around a year and a half of being a good girl, keeping the law, making a kiddush Hashem, and protecting selfish people while they couldn't be bothered to do the same for me, I was DONE. so when the mandate lifted, I stopped masking.

If you don't care enough about me, I'm not going to bother going out of my way for you, either. (Not you amother petunia specifically, but people in general.)

Plus the people who weren't masking aren't really people who are being careful in general...which means that they don't care enough about themselves in the first place to make their health something that I should go out of my way to care about.

Yeah so tell me how pro-vaxxers continue to mask....and also, remind me who brought up masks in this thread, and who started this thread? Wasn't me...

amother

↑ Azalea ↓

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 12:31 am

amother Arcticblue wrote:

I'm not denying that this happened. I take it you are in the US? Where I live (Israel) this did not happen. And I don't think the science supported what you are describing. I think you suffered from government failures.

amother

↑ Azalea ↓

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 12:35 am

amother Calendula wrote:

I'm not denying that it was done, I'm denying that there is a connection to science. It sounds like an incompetent government trying to make people think it's doing something useful.

Do you mean they lied by omission in saying that they weren't testing for transmission? Because I don't think that is a lie by omission. They were clear about what they were testing for. And it wasn't transmission.

I personally don't think I look foolish at all, so I have no reason to backtrack. Everything I'm saying now I said back in 2020 and 2021. Over the course of the pandemic everything I've said has been proven right, not wrong, although some people are only reaching that understanding now (for instance, that the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission....DH and I said in 2020 that it would not...that people would get covid over and over again, and that the covid vaccine would require boosters at least every 6 months...DH and I said that back in 2020 and people laughed in our faces...).

amother

↑ Calendula ↓

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 8:38 am

amother Azalea wrote:

You want to say you personally did not say the vaccine would stop transmission...fine. I believe you...it makes no difference to me. But the narrative coming from the vaccine companies and the governments and everyone else was that the vaccine would stop transmission. Hence if you didn't get one you were a grandma killers and selfish.

amother

↑ Azalea ↓

Thu, Oct 13 2022, 9:03 am

amother Calendula wrote:

The vaccine manufacturers did not misrepresent the vaccine, either.

Did governments misrepresent it? Some did, some didn't.
Did laypeople misrepresent it? Far too many did.
Did news sites misrepresent it? Some did, some didn't.
Did rabbis misrepresent it? Quite possibly.

You complain about people claiming that others were "grandma killers" and "selfish," but on the other side there were attacks of anyone pro-mask or pro-vax being "sheeple," "paranoid," "selfish" and "irresponsible" for not prioritizing routine over everything else, and they were also told to stay home forever if they didn't want to roll the covid dice.

The pandemic brought out the ugly in a lot of people on both sides of the divide. It also showed a lot of problems in the governments of various places, and in how news sites operate and how people read and consume news.

But from there to blaming the misinformation on the vaccine companies themselves? When apparently part of the issue is that not everyone even understands what "transmission" of a virus means? That's a really far stretch and claiming that the vaccine companies misrepresented what they were testing for is just wrong.