Playgroup mother is being ridiculous!

amother

Navy ↓

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 12:05 pm

amother OP wrote:

I run a small playgroup from home (6 kids plus my baby)
My baby came out with hand foot and mouth virus and so did another couple of children all at the same time. Then some more caught it afterwards as its very contagious. I kept playgroup open as I didn't know what it was until it was too late. The Dr that I saw said it was an allergy rash on Sunday morning . One of the parents found out on Tuesday that my baby had it and it was going around. They chose not to send their child into playgroup, and now they don't want to pay me for the days that he missed. It was their choice not to send (he came out with it anyway) do they still need to pay for missed days of their choice?

I asked this to shaile text, just wondering what your thoughts are on this.
I work from home with my baby. I can't shut down every time he's unwell. At first I thought it was a teething rash because he was cutting a tooth at the same time.

And the week before that she sent her son in when he was clearly unwell with a cold etc but she said she can't keep him off all winter when he gets every little cold. So she kept him here miserable for me. Granted she did allow me to let him sleep because she didn't want to fetch him early!

She's now blaming me that she's had her kids home unwell with it. He ended up get 4th virus anyway even after she took him off playgroup. These things happen! I didn't want my baby to get it and the kid who got it first came out with it a day before my baby on shabbos, and she seemed fine on Friday before that so her mother wasn't to know. I'm not angry at her for sending her daughter in, and giving it to my baby and everyone else.

I get so angry at mothers who send their kids to school sick and infect others, so I’m not with you on this one.
Getting other kids sick often results in other family members catching as well, and I’m sure it’s a bad sin.

↑ tichellady

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 12:10 pm

amother Navy wrote:

except that’s not how the world works. by the time a child is showing symptoms of hand foot and mouth the entire playground has been exposed. the parent is not expected to keep a kid home before he/she is even acting sick. most pediatricians would say not to send a kid with a fever or who seems to be in pain/very kvetchy but that once the kid has a virus you can’t keep them at home forever especially since viruses can be contagious for weeks. if it’s a dangerous virus then it’s different but hand foot and mouth, while painful, is not dangerous and is a sad but likely part of childhood

amother

White ↓

Fri, Sep 30 2022, 4:26 pm

Everyone involved here shares the blame here.
She doesn't want to pay.

You dont have set clear policies. Payment, sick child (your child must follow the same policies), vacations... create some and give to all parents.

You brought a sick kid to playgroup and kept him there. Even if it is your own home you need to separate the sick kid, get a babysitter- something. No excuse for knowingly keeping a sick child around others. Even if they were already exposed, even if it isnt "dangerous". Some kids react badly to HFM, get high fevers etc.

She is badmouthing you?

Be more professional with policies etc and follow them. Then you wouldnt be in this predicament. Even if you arent "official"- the clearer your policy the less frustration all around. And if you were the daycare that decided on Friday to change the schedule/program for Monday- you really need to get more formal and professional. Please see these 2 situations as ones that proper policy could have limited the frustration for all involved. It was avoidable really...

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, Oct 01 2022, 1:24 pm

I'm definitely going to be making a policy to be signed for before a new child comes to my group.

Just want to know if this mother is being reasonable to blame me for her kids getting sick. She took him off from a Tuesday, and he only came out with HFM 7 or 8 days after he'd been by me. Even though she didn't send him back as soon as she'd heard that it was going around the group.

I was thinking over shabbos that it probably wasn't sensitive of me to ask them to pay when she's still got her kids home sick. I should have waited until her son came back after Yom Tov to remind them that they didn't pay yet for the last days.

She's extremely upset with me as it is and then I go and ask her to pay 🤦‍♀️ my bad. But I do still stand my ground and think it's money owed to me.

amother

Rose ↓

Sat, Oct 01 2022, 3:22 pm

watergirl wrote:

Was there something in her OP that I was supposed to see and know where she lived?

Not in her OP but lower down on the first page:

amother OP wrote:

amother Honeydew wrote:

Every playgroup I know charges for midwinter break. They charge a yearly fee divided over 10 months, and you pay the same amount every month no matter how many vacation days are in that month. But this is usually clear from the outset.

Not here in the UK. I wish!
I'm a private playgroup. No contacts etc

SG18 ↓

Sat, Oct 01 2022, 3:27 pm

If you're open with sick kids and people choose not to send their kids, you shouldn't charge them. Full stop.
If you're open with all sick kids at home- and your child elsewhere- then you can charge healthy kids' parents.
I would not send my child to a playgroup where there were any sick kids. If it's your kid, you have a responsibility as the teacher to arrange alternate care for your child or close the playgroup.
This mother is being responsible for her child's health and the fact that you feel wronged and inconvenienced is concerning.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, Oct 01 2022, 3:34 pm

SG18 wrote:

I hear your point.
Sick to what extent though? My baby had a little bit of raised temperature on shabbos, and came out with a rash, which at first looked like a diaper rash or a teething rash. He was cutting a tooth then as well.
Sunday morning I took him to be seen. The Dr said it was an allergy rash, he gave me a medicine for him.

Sunday evening , I'm beginning to think that it isn't a normal rash, it became more prominent on his hands and by mouth so I thought maybe it's HFM.

Monday morning, a playgroup kids mum text me saying her daughter has HFM so is not sending her in.
So I realised then that it's definitely the same as what my baby has.
I

I carried on playgroup as normal that day, with 2 kids off playgroup with HFM. Mine was playing with the kids like he usually does as but then he wasn't contagious anymore apparently.

Tuesday, a kid comes in with spots around her mouth, her mum said she's totally fine she was wondering what the rash was. She was in the group every day without illness at all. She was totally fine, I figured it was all over playgroup by then so I let her stay and didn't inform the parents about it.

I'm hindsight I should've let the parents know to look out for it, but that there is likely nothing that can be done at this point.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Sat, Oct 01 2022, 3:47 pm

SG18 wrote:

Monday morning, when you realize your kid has it, you should have told. Also regarding the child who came in with it on Tuesday.
At this point, sure, nothing can be done. But pressuring this mom to pay you for the days her child wasn't by you isn't the right thing to do.
She had to take care of her child because there was an outbreak. She shouldn't have to pay for the days she took care of her kid instead of you.

Yes I should have but regardless if a child is home sick (the parent has to take care of him) and they all know that they have to pay me. She said she wants to keep him off whilst there is an outbreak but I was open. She took him off out of choice because she was going away for rosh hashono and didn't want him to get it then. That's her personal decision as to what to do, but she would've paid me anyway so it's not money lost. She's doesn't work so she didn't have to miss work. And if she did, well that is also not my fault that something was going around my playgroup.

Sure protect your kids health but not on my expense.
He came out with it regardless. It was after rosh hashono bh and its a good week or 2 before she flies for sukkos (when he came out with it) so bh it wasn't worse timing. Otherwise she'd be asking me for a refund for her flight tickets and hotel for Yom Tov!

amother

Alyssum

Sat, Oct 01 2022, 3:58 pm

amother OP wrote:

I understand your frustration here.

Going forward, you will need:
1. A written contract that parents sign, along with postdated checks. (This has to wait until next year.)
2. Backup babysitting for your child when he gets sick. If you wouldn't send him to school, then he can't be in the house when you are caring for other children. (This should start immediately.)

Illness spreading through the playgroup may not be your fault, but it is still your problem. You'll need to deal with it.

Whether or not a mother is employed outside the home is completely irrelevant to this discussion. If you've arranged to do something, then you have an obligation. And for all you know, that's the day she has an appointment with a specialist that she has waited four months to see.

Hopefully the year continues in good health for everyone.

amother

Brown

Sat, Oct 01 2022, 4:39 pm

amother OP wrote:

But he's home with me and I obviously can't send him to a babysitter when he's sick. And again, I thought he had an allergy rash /teething etc. I can't keep him away from the other kids he's crawling and everywhere with them.

I stayed open when I heard what it was from another mother (confirmed it but I thought it's likely hand foot and mouth) because so many of the kids had already caught it at the same time as my baby.

Pediatricians don’t even recommend keeping home for hand foot mouth because by the time the rash comes out the others have all been infected anyway. Also can be contagious for up to a month and realistically no one is keeping kid with no symptoms home that long just in case. She’s wrong and you should be clear with your policy up front. If she won’t oh kick her kid out.

amother

Blonde

Sat, Oct 01 2022, 5:25 pm

amother OP wrote:

I am a playgroup morah. When someone had hand foot mouth, I told the mother to check with their doctor before sending the child back. A different mother told me the next day that her child is cranky bec teething. I told her right away that someone is out with HFM and she should check for any symptoms before sending the kid. A different year I had 2 kids out with the flu, so I sent out a text to all the parents to make them aware that it's going around so they can look out for symptoms.
Though it's a small private playgroup, parents sign a paper when registering with the pay arrangements - when payment is due, what the price is... And it's monthly, regardless of what the holiday schedule is that month. We are off 2-3 days for mid winter, 2 days on chanukah, erev Yom tovs and Yom tov, and the parents know at the start that we follow the schedule of ___ school. I send home a note with what our policy is regarding sick kids, and if I have my own kid that year, I follow the same policy. Don't send unless fever free 24 hours unless doctor said there's a clear cause and baby isn't contagious (like a baby that used to get low fever as allergic reaction), and other rules like that. If my baby is sick, I either get grandma to pitch in and take dc for the day, or at times I had to hire a sub...

WhatFor

Sat, Oct 01 2022, 7:34 pm

amother OP wrote:

Sure protect your kids health but not on my expense.
He came out with it regardless. It was after rosh hashono bh and its a good week or 2 before she flies for sukkos (when he came out with it) so bh it wasn't worse timing. Otherwise she'd be asking me for a refund for her flight tickets and hotel for Yom Tov!

Where I come from, this is not acceptable at all. You
don't knowingly send your kids with HFM disease to school, and worse make a parent pay if they want to keep their child home to avoid that. You're basically setting up an unsafe situation for her child and forcing her to pay for the days she won't send until you fix the unsafe situation.

And no, the entire class does not have to get it just because they were exposed to a few kids who got it. Perhaps they all do in places where everyone knowingly sends their kids with HFM, but not when children are kept home with it. When my toddler got it,a few other kids got it that same day but less than a quarter of the kids in the class got it. They stayed home and that was it for the kids getting it that outbreak.

The bolded line is a very concerning mentality for a playgroup morah. I'm hoping you meant something else and that came out awkward.

amother

Magnolia

Sat, Oct 01 2022, 8:09 pm

OP, if you knowingly let kids get exposed to HFM disease without telling parents, I'd be fuming. My kids are on the small side and are hard to feed as it is. They can't really afford to skip meals because they have sores in their mouths. (BH not medically dangerous or anything like that, but they're barely on the growth curve.) One of my kids had it once and they didn't want to drink, let alone eat.

And I'm not just saying that. I cancelled yom tov plans very close to yom tov once when I heard there was an outbreak in my host's house.

It's not your place to make cheshbonos for parents. It's just not. You give the info as it comes, and each parent can call their pediatrician and make their own choice.

TwinsMommy

Sat, Oct 01 2022, 10:51 pm

I have no further advice for you because the above posters have it covered but I just want to give you all a laugh while we're on the HFM subject.

My son, who is now 15, came down with HFM about 8 years ago while a daycamper at a (non Jewish, special needs) daycamp. When he was diagnosed I kept him home and doctor said I can send him back when sores are scabbed over and not open--- so I did. He looked awful but felt perfect. Camp sent him right back home and told me to get a doctor's note to be able to send him back. So I got a note from a different doctor saying his sores are scabbed over, he's healthy and is fine to be back at camp. I sent him back--- they bounced him back home again AND sent his twin sister home too because she'd "been exposed" (she had ZERO symptoms). And when it took my husband 30 minutes to pick them up (we lived 30 minutes away) they complained that "you Jews drive faster than that, don't you?" Needless to say, we were out tuition for the many days of camp they missed and we didn't send them back after that year. Don't ask for a doctor's note and then ignore what it says, and don't send home a healthy child just because she's a sibling of a once contagious child who WAS at camp when he was contagious and not yet symptomatic but stayed home from camp while his sores were scabbed over and two docs told us he was FINE to be there. BLAH!

amother

↑ Rose

Sun, Oct 02 2022, 2:43 am

amother OP wrote:

But you kept a sick child at playgroup, knowing that others would be exposed and infected. So why should they pay you? You literally made their kids sick.

The moment you realized on Monday that your child had HFM you should have called all the parents and informed them of the exposure and kept your kid away from the rest of them. On Tuesday you should have sent the other sick child home.

You supported the creation of an outbreak in your playgroup and now you want to penalize the mother who tried her best to keep her child from getting sick. It's not your business if she's missing work or not missing work, or if she's doing it because she doesn't want her y"t plans messed up. It's not your business.

Yes her child came down with it regardless. Maybe he wouldn't have come down with it, had you acted more responsibly.

The bolded is exactly the mindset that fueled the measles outbreak and the covid pandemic. If this is your thinking then you are a big part of the problem.

If the child had come down with flu because he was infected by a sibling, and mom chose to keep him home then you'd have a claim to demand payment in any case. But in this case you literally exposed the child, and then demanded a responsible parent pay you for the days the child is home to avoid being part of the outbreak. Not okay.

BTW HFM is contagious until the sores scab over. Very contagious. And it can infect adults as well. I don't know where you're getting your information from but you really shouldn't be making other people's health decisions for them and then demanding that they pay you no matter what.

amother

Skyblue

Sun, Oct 02 2022, 5:19 am

OP, I do not think you handled this situation properly. First of all, as soon as you realized anyone in the playgroup had hfm you should have notified all the parents. They shouldn't have to hear through the grapevine.

Second, you should have clear rules in place at the beginning of the year about when to send a child if they are sick.

Also, if you allow your sick kid to be present at playgroup, it's not fair to have rule preventing other parents from sending their kids when sick. At the same time, it's not fair to force parents to pay to send their healthy child to playgroup when there sre sick kids there. You should give them the option to send or not send and not pay. You can't force parents to send their kids to knowingly expose their kids to sick kids.

Also, hand foot mouth and chicken pox are not the same as a cold. And yes, kids can get exposed when they send to daycare or playgroup, but it's another thing to intentionally expose kids AND to not even tell parents that you are knowingly exposing their kids.

amother

Maize ↓

Sun, Oct 02 2022, 6:21 am

amother Magnolia wrote:

It's not your place to make cheshbonos for parents. It's just not. You give the info as it comes, and each parent can call their pediatrician and make their own choice.

This. I get so upset when Moros make medical decisions that affect my child. Give me the info so I can decide for myself. And if you are keeping your sick child in the group then I have every right to not send and not pay. I would never agree to knowingly expose my child to something like hand foot mouth.