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amother
Violet
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 Tue, Sep 06 2022, 9:15 pm
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Wow wonder if I could do this remotely 😉!!
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BrachaVHatzlocha
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Tue, Sep 06 2022, 9:26 pm
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this year the setss forms sent to parents even has a note attached that if you don't find a provider from their list, and find your own, you may be able to use them, even at an enhanced rate, without a fair hearing! so... the process is getting simpler.
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seeker
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 5:14 am
Yes, Agudah sent out a letter to that effect last winter/spring or so. It's amazing news for providers because the agencies take a huge cut (not saying they don't deserve it. They do a lot of backend work, and until now there was a lot of legal work too. But it's a HUGE cut.) However, I haven't seen a shift to that yet, because the agencies have it down to a system and basically control the market.
It's smart on the DOE end because they could offer a lower enhanced rate to individuals than to agencies (I hope they realize that. If the DOE is paying agencies $120-150 while the agencies are paying the providers $70 then the DOE could pay direct to providers $85 and both taxpayers and providers come out solidly ahead) and they don't need all the legal work of going through lawsuits and settlements. It's a LOT of work processing each one separately only to hear the same claims over and over. In the early days before the agencies had it down to a science I was part of several hearings on the students' behalf and it wasn't quick work.
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 5:41 am
| seeker wrote: | Because the real rate for special ed is $42 an hour. There is no way for supply to meet demand at that rate anymore. So people started suing the DOE case by case to get individually approved for higher rates. Then agencies popped up to do this in bulk. The DOE is insane and would rather settle a zillion suits and pay a fortune instead of just setting a reasonable rate in the first place. However I predict that this bubble will pop and I'm not sure what happens then.
I hope that therapists are also going to be able to negotiate better rates. You're right that it isn't proportionate, especially since speech is mandated for shorter times than ed so you get fewer billable hours for each set of paperwork you do.
But yes I'm happy that I'm having a relatively good moment after way too may years of barely making ends meet on the lower rates. I hope it doesn't crash too hard when it all comes down. Because it will - they're not going to be able to sustain the amount of cases that are going to enhanced rate now that the agencies have gotten the hang of it so well. It's really snowballing. |
Why would it "crash hard"? I agree the pay has gotten out of hand and a little crazy, but I think at some point the DOE will just cap the pay at a lower level. Maybe 10% or 15% less than now. Maybe they'll also make it harder to get services. But why would it crash?
This is not a typical market that is subject to regular supply and demand. The people with degrees aren't going anywhere nor are the students who need help. The DOE is the 3rd party involved and they might lower the rate at some point. I don't see any reason why the rate would "crash".
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seeker
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 5:55 am
I hope you're right. I think the move toward offering enhanced rate without a lawsuit is a step in a good direction.
It would crash if they decide to crack down and make it harder to get. If they wake up and realize that there is no way in heck that 90% of Boro Park has such complex special needs that they need to be in a mainstream classroom while also needing highly specialized services that can't be provided appropriately in a group.
It would be great if they wake up in the other direction and simply realize that they are paying out a fortune in enhanced rate and nobody is going to provide masters level special ed services at cleaning lady rates, and decide to raise the rates across the board at the same time as they cut down on enhanced. In that case the ones losing out would be the agencies who would have to do a very swift pivot, or corner the market while other agencies shut down, because they won't be able to function without the gigantic commission they're getting.
But after working in this area for years, I am wary of overestimating the DOE's capacity for logic. I definitely don't see how the current model is sustainable, the question is whether it will get fixed.
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seeker
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 5:59 am
My real question is if this enhanced rate mechanism is so viable, why are we not seeing it for therapies?
The principle is like this: I can't find any providers to take my case, but I found one who will do it for a higher rate. DOE pays the higher rate because they are mandated to get you the services.
Why don't they do that for OT? You know how many kids I have waiting for OT who really need it but there aren't enough DOE OTs and there aren't enough who will take an RSA? Where's the enhanced rate agency for that, please?! Counseling is also hard to get but OT is the worst. I have kids waiting years, or more commonly kids whose parents gave up because there just isn't anyone.
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 6:21 am
| seeker wrote: | My real question is if this enhanced rate mechanism is so viable, why are we not seeing it for therapies?
The principle is like this: I can't find any providers to take my case, but I found one who will do it for a higher rate. DOE pays the higher rate because they are mandated to get you the services.
Why don't they do that for OT? You know how many kids I have waiting for OT who really need it but there aren't enough DOE OTs and there aren't enough who will take an RSA? Where's the enhanced rate agency for that, please?! Counseling is also hard to get but OT is the worst. I have kids waiting years, or more commonly kids whose parents gave up because there just isn't anyone. |
Probably because there are way (by a mile) children who need academic help and are interested in setss as opposed to OT. Even if a child can use some OT, the parent is less likely to pursue it than if a child is struggling with basic math/reading and is struggling in school.
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 7:29 am
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This year if you settle and skip a hearing the DOE is offering a higher amount. Yet the agency is not raising their rates. They are taking a huge cut! In some cases they are making more than 50%!
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 8:08 am
| amother Sapphire wrote: | | This year if you settle and skip a hearing the DOE is offering a higher amount. Yet the agency is not raising their rates. They are taking a huge cut! In some cases they are making more than 50%! |
Are you saying high 70s is too low? Im that’s why I’m asking. Like am I being taken advantage of?
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 10:20 am
| amother Aster wrote: | | Are you saying high 70s is too low? Im that’s why I’m asking. Like am I being taken advantage of? |
Yes.
Last year the DOE paid $150!
All providers are just accepting this.
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 11:04 am
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If you are a SETSS provider through an agency, please share how much you get paid and what you think is standard for an agency to pay
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 12:25 pm
| amother Aster wrote: | | Are you saying high 70s is too low? Im that’s why I’m asking. Like am I being taken advantage of? |
No. high 70's is a nice rate but if you're very experienced, you can certainly try to ask for more.
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 12:37 pm
| amother Blue wrote: | | No. high 70's is a nice rate but if you're very experienced, you can certainly try to ask for more. |
I am very experienced and a great provider who the parents are very happy with. I did ask for more and got a slightly higher rate but I’m at the high 70s. I would love to know these agencies paying so much more.
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 12:42 pm
How much can someone who is very experienced and has a specific niche ask 85? 90? 95?
I'm asking people who are in the field, not other random therapists, etc.
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 1:33 pm
| amother Whitesmoke wrote: | How much can someone who is very experienced and has a specific niche ask 85? 90? 95?
I'm asking people who are in the field, not other random therapists, etc. |
Ask whom? Are you talking about asking from parents? agency? dept of ed?
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 1:36 pm
| amother Blue wrote: | | Ask whom? Are you talking about asking from parents? agency? dept of ed? |
As far as I understand. Pendency cases are only available through agencies. U cannot bill the doe directly
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 1:44 pm
| amother Aster wrote: | | As far as I understand. Pendency cases are only available through agencies. U cannot bill the doe directly |
Oh you do pendency? Don't know anyone making more that high 70's on that.
SETTS agencies are the one that pay more
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amother
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Wed, Sep 07 2022, 1:45 pm
| amother Oatmeal wrote: | I'm honestly thinking if I should try to get a special ed degree. I took a bunch of EDU courses aa part of speech therapy school anyway, and some of the education licensing tests.
I’ve heard that you can possibly do this with a speech degree. Look into it.
The pay as a setts teacherrl is just so so so much better and the job is easier.
I really hope the girls starting college these days understand this and make good career choices. |
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