Devastating Irreversible Abusive Treatments

↑ skyeblue ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:25 pm

amother [ Charcoal ] wrote:

I don't understand that sentence.

I have no idea about mental health professional regulation.

I do know about conversion therapy.

The RCA very clearly came out against a Jewish Conversion therapy organization. That should be enough for you.

So you're relying on the RCA, who's relying on "mental health professionals" (neither of whom is credible in my opinion). There is not a shred of evidence here.

In contrast, here is an article by a man who actually went through conversion therapy and was able to change his "s-xual orientation." I originally saw this article on Aish.com, but it has since been taken down frome there. Why? I'll leave it to you to puzzle over.

https://guardyoureyes.com/ssa-.....-home

According to you, this man should not have been able to receive the treatment that he did - because, "the RCA says that mental health professionals say it doesn't work."

↑ skyeblue ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:46 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

I actually agree with you on this one. There’s an explosion of trans kids coming out of the woodworks suddenly, especially in mainstream society. It’s sad but it’s something we need to deal with and blaming it on liberal propaganda doesn’t help anyone. My opinion is, (and I’ve spoken to moms of formerly trans kids) let the kids explore as part of emotional development as long as there is no medical intervention involved. Give them all the support and therapy they need, hopefully by the time they reach adulthood, they’ll realize that this isn’t the answer they were looking for. It’s worked for other moms. Sometimes fighting it only makes the issue worse.

Why not?
If you know the source of the issue, you can deal with it.

It's just that most of us are not willing to disconnect from general society and all the sewage it pumps out.

amother

↑ Charcoal ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:49 pm

skyeblue wrote:

No I'm not relying on the RCA but I very much disagree with your reading of their statement.

I read the article you posted. No mention of conversion therapy. I'll read it again to be sure.

The article was on the Aish site. Nothing to ponder.

↑ skyeblue ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:57 pm

amother [ Caramel ] wrote:

But considering the tendencies for perseveration in those on the spectrum, and the difficulty in changing those perseverative habits without intense intervention, don’t you worry that this strategy, while helpful for neurotypical kids, will backfire on yours?

I get that this is the only strategy your professional team has been able to come up with, but it doesn’t mean it’s the one best for your child. It might be the one best for the current societal culture, which as we know is often at odds for what our kids really need.

My neurodivergent child wanted to wear a dress in public. I said no, constantly. Neutral affect, no emotional input into the choice. Over time, the desire faded and he’s now a boy with a healthy desire for girls and also wears appropriate attire. I also controlled his surroundings and put him in schools that, while they weren’t on our religious wavelength, was therapeutically appropriate and kept him away from public school. The environment is key, which is why we keep harping on liberal propaganda. To see that it doesn’t happen in a vacuum.

Wow. Thank you for sharing your experience.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 8:02 pm

amother [ Caramel ] wrote:

Dr. Gerald Davidson was one of the pioneers of conversion therapy. He was a brilliant psychologist and researcher, and is listed on hundreds of publications on the subject.

He himself changed his mind in the 70’s and made an about face, dismissing his own theories as inherently flawed and publicly denouncing his own decade of work. That’s some powerful refutation of the methodology right there. It’s actually quite scary, and one of the reasons most therapists have abandoned any attempt at revitalizing the conversion therapy movement.

I have just shown how professionals are threatened to change their opinions.

All professionals know that once the government decides "conversion therapy - bad"
they had better toe the line - or else.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 8:21 pm

Thank you Sky-Blue for the article on how a Jewish Man was able to transition from being a
homos@xual man to a heteros@xualman - with the help of COUNSELING:

I learned that homes like mine are common among men with homosexual urges.

I discovered that there is insufficient evidence for the claim that homosexuality is genetically or biologically predetermined. Instead I learned that homes like mine are common among men with homosexual urges. I found out that the great founders of psychology – from Freud and Jung up to the 1960s ― had described how the problems in those homes lead to homosexual attraction. I learned that their studies had never been disproved, merely shouted down. Just like people whose fantasy defenses were threatened by my own observations were shouting me down, telling me to disbelieve my own senses and feelings.

I found out that "out and proud" homosexuals still suffered depression, suicide, and substance abuse at rates several times higher than the general population. And that many gay men settle for a lifetime of brief, compulsive, and often anonymous s-xual couplings, marked by elevated rates of physical abuse....

I had to accept that my pain was caused by internal trauma, rather than external prejudice.

I had to accept that healing would require hard work to change my habits and mindset ― and on the way I would have to unearth and relive deeply painful episodes. To restore myself to the community of real men, I would have to relinquish the narcissistic comfort of being "special," ...

As I took counsel with friends in both the gay and Torah worlds, a paradox emerged: those who called themselves liberal-minded humanists asserted that I was like an animal, my essential nature fixed ― and that there was no higher dimension to "fulfilling myself" beyond s-xual abandon. And Torah Judaism ― dismissed by them as primitive ― asserted that I was free to define myself and bond deeply with others through the uniquely human qualities of free will, insight and choice.

One communal organization devoted to helping Jews struggle with homosexual urges provided targeted support with a Jewish orientation that I could not have received elsewhere. They allowed me to express my deepest feelings for the first time in a loving, accepting circle of men, and referred me to counseling professionals who were knowledgeable about homosexuality and Judaism, and shared my therapeutic goals.

Return Vs. Change

People ask, "How did you change your s-xual orientation?" But the language of the question betrays incorrect notions about homosexuality.

I didn't have to "change" anything. The definition of teshuva is returning to one's true self, one's soul. The s-xual attraction I felt to other men was not my true nature; it was an attempt driven by my yetzer hara, my baser self, to satisfy unmet needs, a symptom of missed developmental opportunities and distorted perceptions.

The healing path for men struggling with these attractions focuses on the underlying causes. We build trusting relationships that satisfy our healthy need for male bonding in a non-s-xual way.

The Torah doesn't prohibit sincere, healthy needs. It warns us that these needs can draw us down emotional dead-ends, and guides us towards healthy ways to fulfill them ― and grow through them.

When these needs are met – when men are no longer mysterious, other, unattainable ― the s-xual attraction to men decreases. As I found my own masculine power within me, the need to seek and consume another man's masculinity weakened. And in a pattern typical of this healing path, I found that feeling better about myself as a man led to healthy, normal heterosexual attractions.

amother

↑ Charcoal ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 8:32 pm

skyeblue wrote:

I think we may be referring to two different things when talking about conversion therapy.

I'm curious to what you mean by it. What exactly do you mean when you say conversion therapy?

To stick with JONAH referenced in the RCA article. On conversion therapy

https://www.nj.com/politics/20......html

He also reminded jurors of the tactics. Chaim Levin was made to relive the s-xual abuse as a child by a relative. Downing coached Unger to blame his mother for making him gay, then gave him a tennis racket and told him to strike a pillow and imagine he was hitting her. During weekend retreats and in group sessions, clients were encouraged to undress to rid themselves of "body shame" and touch themselves to express their manhood.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 8:47 pm

amother [ Charcoal ] wrote:

He also reminded jurors of the tactics. Chaim Levin was made to relive the s-xual abuse as a child by a relative. Downing coached Unger to blame his mother for making him gay, then gave him a tennis racket and told him to strike a pillow and imagine he was hitting her. During weekend retreats and in group sessions, clients were encouraged to undress to rid themselves of "body shame" and touch themselves to express their manhood.

Are you claiming that ALL CONVERSION THERAPY is this?

Are you?

You know psychiatrists used to use SHOCK TREATMENTS and do LOBOTOMIES.

Is that what all psychiatry is???

Should government outlaw psychiatry???

Read the article I reprinted on how a man healing from childhood trauma was
able to feel normal heteros@xual feelings.

THAT is conversion therapy!

↑ miami85

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 9:01 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

In a FB group for Conservative educators there was a screenshot of a post from another more liberal group saying "look at these classic children's authors, they were all gay/queer"--and in general yes they are classic, but they are not ABOUT being gay/Queer, they are normal children's books. But looking into all of the authors, there was a common theme--trauma, all of them had some sort of identifiable trauma--from being the child of Holocaust survivors, to bullying to a career ending injury. Why am I part of this group if I'm not a teacher? I'm a school psychologist. I was kicked out of a school psych group for suggesting that my theory on LGBTQ youth--particularly the BTQ is that its an overall "lack of identity" and lack of self-awareness, the confusion that comes from kids seeing educated parents/adults struggle to earn a living, but gaming YouTubers making money kids don't know how or why to get an education or a career. It's a modern form of counter-culture like hippie/goth/punk that kids want to send a message of how they feel inside--and that is that they are lost--this is the generation that was told "you can be anything you want when you grow up"--so boys become girls and wear high heels, lipstick and brassiers, and girls want short hair, pants and wear ties. I also have a problem with the Latinx term as it is both culturally insensitive and makes no logical sense. Not only was I kicked out of the group for being "homo" and "transphobic", someone--a Jew unfortunately, wanted to be moser me to the APA for my theory.

↑ skyeblue ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 9:30 pm

amother [ Charcoal ] wrote:

Thank you for clarifying. I followed your link and read the article.

I hear what you're saying. Some of JONAS's methods do seem extreme.

The type of conversion therapy that I was referring to is any counseling or talk therapy or group therapy that helps a person reclaim heterosexuality.

I think part of the confusion is that proponents of homosexuality deliberately lump together severe forms of conversion therapy with any counseling that helps a person reclaim their heterosexuality. They call both of these "conversion therapy." It is a dishonest practice that is clearly done in order to make any such therapy appear violent and unnatural. To quote from your article about JONAS:

"Last month, a bill was introduced in Congress would classify commercial conversion therapy and advertising that claims to change s-xual orientation and gender identity as fraud."

Well that's certainly a jump from JONAS's possibly questionable methods.

It sounds like you are not opposed to counseling that helps someone reclaim their heterosexuality; only to severe methods. So I don't think we really disagree here.

Last edited by skyeblue on Wed, Jul 06 2022, 9:45 pm; edited 2 times in total

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 9:30 pm

amother [ Jade ] wrote:

You can’t biologically “heal” autism. Or gender dysphoria.

This is from a mainstream medical website - Healthline.com

s-xual fluidity, in short, means your s-xual orientation isn’t permanently fixed.

It can help to think of orientation as a spectrum that includes people of all genders. s-xually fluid people tend to experience attractions at different points along the spectrum as they go through life.

As Diamond and other experts have pointed out, fluidity offers a better, more accurate explanation for what people have, in the past, stereotyped and stigmatized as “confusion.”

The Experts used to claim that one's s@xual orientation was fixed and immutable.

Now the Experts admit that people can think they are same-s@x attracted, but
also have feelings of being attracted to opposite s@x. And vice versa.

And that this used to be called "confusion".

So you have a teen who develops a "crush" on someone of the same gender.

This is VERY TYPICAL and does NOT mean the teen is homos@xual.

But some Lefty Mental Health Professional tells the teen, you are 100% Gay -
and you can NEVER, EVER change what you are. Period. End of Story.

But this is a Lie.

The teen tells the Mental Health Professional he is not sure he is Gay.

But the teen is already LABELED FOR LIFE AS GAY, and it is AGAINST THE LAW,
for the Mental Health Professional to "change" someone PERMANENTLY LABELED GAY
to straight.

But the Experts now all admit that S@xual Orientation can be FLUID, and just because
someone had some "feelings" for someone of the same Gender, that does not mean
they are permanently Gay!