What can I leave in the oven for lunch?

MiracleMama ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:24 pm

If I left my oven on a low temp (180 is I think the lowest - is that better than 200?) what could I leave in there to serve Shabbos day - besides cholent - that will not be dried out and gross?

Would a whole pastrami roast be possible? Already cooked and sliced, then generously sauced and wrapped tight? Or would it need to be submerged in liquid? What about kugel? Standard potato kugel or has to be adapted to survive that many hours even at low heat? What else? Open to anything.

Not_in_my_town ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:37 pm

Can I please recommend speaking to your rabbi about using your oven on Shabbos if you haven't already? Please tell him specifically which model.

Many ovens will turn on a flame when the door is opened and the heat escapes in order to maintain the temperature you've set it on. This even applies to the so-called "Shabbos ovens." They were originally created for Yom Tov use -- not Shabbos. There are very specific halachos of how to use them.

If you've already done your research, then great. Hope you find a great recipe!

Last edited by Not_in_my_town on Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ Not_in_my_town ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:39 pm

Btw, have you ever made beef stew? It's not the standard cholent and is really yummy. That might be a good option.

↑ Not_in_my_town ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:41 pm

Oh, and potato kugel you can actually upgrade by placing a cup of water directly onto the kugel, then tightly covering with silver foil and placing in oven. Put a pan full of water on the bottom of the oven, as well.

It will turn brown and become much richer. Will taste amazing.

↑ MiracleMama ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:44 pm

Not_in_my_town wrote:

Can I please recommend speaking to your rabbi about using your oven on Shabbos if you haven't already? Please find tell him specifically which model.

Many ovens will turn on a flame when the door is opened and the heat escapes in order to maintain the temperature you've set it on. This even applies to the so-called "Shabbos ovens." They were originally created for Yom Tov use -- not Shabbos. There are very specific halachos of how to use them.

If you've already done your research, then great. Hope you find a great recipe!

There is no issue. It is in fact a shabbos oven, which will not be opened until lunch time, when the timer has already turned it off.

Anyone have some helpful ideas?

preciousmommy ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:46 pm

I’ve done pastrami roast, but I don’t cook it beforehand. Put it in the oven raw on Friday afternoon, with a little water on the bottom of the pan and covered. Low temperature, maybe 220. Or you can put the roast in a crockpot with a little water. Delicious.

My family also enjoys yapchik. Raw potato kugel and meat, covered well, baking on low.

ra_mom ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:46 pm

For pastrami, keep it raw and still in the vacuum packed bag. Place it in a deep pan submerged with water and cover tightly. 200

↑ MiracleMama ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:47 pm

Not_in_my_town wrote:

Btw, have you ever made beef stew? It's not the standard cholent and is really yummy. That might be a good option.

What goes in besides meat and potatoes and onions? Any ingredients that aren't standard cholent ingredients?

↑ Not_in_my_town ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:50 pm

MiracleMama wrote:

What goes in besides meat and potatoes and onions? Any ingredients that aren't standard cholent ingredients?

Brown stew meat, onions, potatoes and carrots. Then add water, peas and spices. Black pepper, salt, onion powder, garlic. It's very delicious. Add enough water so that it won't all boil out. Serve over rice.

↑ MiracleMama ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:52 pm

ra_mom wrote:

For pastrami, keep it raw and still in the vacuum packed bag. Place it in a deep pan submerged with water and cover tightly. 200

I was under the impression that the rule about putting up raw meat cholent just before licht betschen (which is what I always do) was only for crock pot and not necessarily okay in an oven. Will have to clarify with rabbi. You think pre-cooked will get ruined?

Ema of 5 ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:56 pm

MiracleMama wrote:

How can that be, when originally there was no such thing as a crock pot?

↑ Not_in_my_town

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 6:57 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

How can that be, when originally there was no such thing as a crock pot?

I think she means stovetop vs. baking. Two different methods of cooking.

↑ MiracleMama ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:00 pm

Ema of 4 wrote:

How can that be, when originally there was no such thing as a crock pot?

LOL, I don't know. I just feel like I heard this when learning hilchos shabbos. And so I've never done it. (Though truthfully I usually need my oven for Friday night too so it wouldn't even work on a typical week). Maybe I dreamed it. In any case when I get clarification from my rabbi I will report back.

↑ preciousmommy

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:02 pm

MiracleMama wrote:

You have to double check the halachos. Might be ok either right before shabbos, or long enough before that it’s edible. Don’t remember.

↑ Ema of 5 ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:05 pm

MiracleMama wrote:

There is definitely a thing about putting in raw meat right before shabbos, but I don’t remember learning it specifically in connection to the crock pot and not the oven. I’m very curious to hear what your rabbi says

↑ MiracleMama ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:08 pm

Found this on Chabad.org so I know I'm not dreaming. (And I also know not everyone holds this way. Will get absolute clarification tomorrow).

6:1 The Definition of Shehiya

From the point of view of Bishul on Shabbos, there is no prohibition whatsoever in leaving a raw food or unboiled liquid on an open flame on Erev Shabbos so that it gradually cooks on Shabbos itself, since the Bishul occurs of its own accord. However, Chazal were concerned that on Shabbos a person may come to speed up the cooking process of raw or uncooked foods by stoking the fire — an Av Melachah of Mav’ir. Chazal therefore forbade leaving uncooked food on a cooker in the normal manner. The reason for this prohibition is called Gezeirah Shema Yechate, which means “a decree perhaps you may come to stoke the fire” and the prohibition itself is called Shehiya.

In order to leave uncooked food on the cooker, Chazal made a rule that the fire must be covered. Once the fire has been covered, there is no prohibition of Shehiya. The reason for this is that the covering of the fire indicates that the person does not wish to have a strong flame and this will remind the person not to increase the flame. A covered flame is called “Ketuma.”1

6:2 Which Fires Need Covering

a) Gas and electric ranges

Nowadays when most cooking is done on a gas or electric2 range, the common custom is to cover the flames with an aluminum sheet3 called a “blech.”4 Preferably the controls for the flames should also be covered,5 either by the blech itself or with a piece of aluminum foil.6

b) Electric hot plate

In general there are two different types of hot plates available on the market:

1. There are hot plates that do not have a temperature range, rather, once the hot plate is turned on, it maintains a constant temperature. With such a hot plate there is no worry that one will come to increase the fire since there is no possibility of increasing the fire and such a hot plate therefore requires no covering.7

2. A hot plate with a variable temperature range needs to be covered with a sheet of foil.8 The same would apply to a warming cupboard with a variable temperature range.9

c) Crock Pots

Crock pots or slow cookers that have variable temperature ranges10 are subject to the laws of Shehiya and foil should be placed between the outer cooker and the inner pot.11

d) Oven

The halachic status of an oven is rather different from that of a cooker in that the food in an oven is not placed directly on a flame, rather, the flame (in a gas oven, or the electric element in an electric oven) is at the rear of the oven (or in the roof of the oven as is the case of some electric ovens) and the food is cooked due to the heat of the air in the oven.

There is a discussion among the Poskim as to how to achieve the state of Ketuma in an oven. Some Poskim write that the only way to achieve Ketuma is by using an oven insert, I.e., a metal box placed inside the oven that acts as a barrier from all sides (or alternatively covering all the sides and base of the oven with foil). Other Poskim write that Ketuma is achieved a) by covering one of the walls of the oven with foil and b) by covering the controls.

Due to this difference of opinion as to how to achieve Ketuma in an oven, one should always place only fully cooked food in an oven thereby avoiding the need for the oven to be Ketuma.12

↑ Ema of 5 ↓

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:11 pm

So maybe that’s why you remember it specifically in connection to a crock pot and not an oven.

rowo

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:25 pm

Lamb shoulder is great like this

Ellie7

Wed, Jul 06 2022, 7:41 pm

Yaptzik! https://jamiegeller.com/recipe.....tzik/

(I add kishka to mine and often use raw pastrami instead of flanken.)

Amarante ↓

Thu, Jul 07 2022, 6:30 am

This is a variation on cholent using chicken and rice - I have a variation using chicken thighs instead of whole chicken if anyone is interested.

T’BIT | Stuffed Chicken and Rice Hamin with Honey and Spices

Excerpt From: Janna Gur - Jewish Soul Food

IRAQI

Made of beans, beef, and starchy vegetables, Shabbat casseroles are pretty heavy. Iraqi t’bit is different. It has all the comforting essence of a very slowly cooked pot roast, but because it is made with chicken and rice (rather than beef and beans), it is considerably lighter. Just imagine how delicious the chicken tastes after it spends the night in the oven wrapped in a blanket of fragrant rice. You can make it with a whole chicken or with chicken parts. Here are both versions to start you off.

Since the rice cooks for such a long time, this is a perfect recipe in which to use brown rice instead of white and make your Shabbat lunch more nutritious.

Serves 6

For the stuffing

2 cups long-grain white rice or parboiled brown rice
4 tomatoes, grated
1 large onion, grated
2 garlic cloves, minced (optional)
1 to 2 tablespoons baharat spice mix
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
1 heaping teaspoon dried mint
Salt and freshly ground black pepper

For the chicken

1 whole chicken (3 pounds/1½ kg)
2 tablespoons olive oil
2 cups chicken stock or water

T’bit 1 (With Whole Chicken)

1. Prepare the stuffing Mix together the rice, tomatoes, onion, garlic (if using), baharat, vegetable oil, mint, salt, and pepper.

2. Prepare the chicken Fill the chicken’s cavity with one-quarter of the stuffing and secure it with toothpicks or a trussing needle and thread.

3. Heat the olive oil in a large ovenproof pot with a tight-fitting lid and brown the stuffed chicken on all sides, about 15 minutes.

4. Arrange the remaining stuffing around the chicken, so that the chicken is half buried in it. Pour the chicken stock over and bring to a boil. Cook for 10 minutes, until the liquid is absorbed by the rice.

5. Preheat the oven to 215°F (100°C).

6. Cover the pot with a tight-fitting lid and place in the oven to cook for at least 8 hours or overnight.

VARIATION

This doesn’t comply with strict Shabbat rules, but if you want crisp chicken skin and brown crust on the rice, remove the lid and raise the oven temperature to 400°F (200°C) for 15 minutes before serving.

To Parboil Brown Rice

Parboiling improves the texture of brown rice and enables you to use it in any recipe that calls for white rice. To cook 3 cups brown rice, bring to a boil 6 to 7 cups water with 2 to 3 teaspoons salt. Add the rice and boil for about 15 minutes, stirring occasionally. Drain. Refrigerate if it will be more than a couple hours before you use it.